Clubhouse's Path to Ubiquity and Monetization: Mallory Lee

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Mark Evans: It's Mark Evans, and you're listening to Marketing Spark, a podcast that delivers insight, tools, and tips from marketers and entrepreneurs in the trenches in twenty five minutes or less. In the past month, Clubhouse has gone from a low profile social media platform to a red hot entity despite being invite only and limited to iOS users. Many people are enthusiastically exploring the audio platform to learn more about how it works and its potential benefits. And one of those people is Mallory Lee, who has established herself as a popular room moderator, which we'll get into. Mallory, welcome to Marketing Spark.

Mallory Lee: Thanks for having me.

Mark Evans: So for the uninitiated, maybe you can provide us with your take on Clubhouse. What is it? How does it work? Why is it so popular?

Mallory Lee: I think, you know, there was some scarcity of invites, so it made it really popular. Right? People were like, what is this? And I didn't even know what it was when I first signed up. I just knew I had to be a part of it. Right? And then I really dove in and I I akin it to there's two two parts of it. There's the it seems like a conference, right, where you can listen to people speak on a subject or topic that's interesting to you. And maybe you get to pipe in and ask questions, but maybe not because there might be a thousand people in the room. Or it's more like a live podcast where you can interact and there's a topic and there might be, you know, twenty, thirty people in the room. And I've seen them as low as 10 people. So you can get firsthand knowledge and information from subject experts that you may not have otherwise been able to connect with.

Mark Evans: One of the things that I'm curious about is that a lot of hardcore LinkedIn users have jumped on Clubhouse. So a couple questions to ask you discovered what the synergies are between the two platform? How you can make one plus one equal three? And the second one would be, how do people split their time? Because LinkedIn is a creature that needs a lot of love and attention and so does Clubhouse.

Mallory Lee: So I when I first dove in, was on Clubhouse a lot more. And now I'm more methodical with my time. I don't just go in rooms to go in rooms. I go in rooms to learn and to share information. And I think with LinkedIn, I've been what I've been doing is when I'm in a room, whoever's in that room, I connect with them immediately on LinkedIn. Hey. Saw you on Clubhouse. So I'm able to transition the conversations I'm having on Clubhouse into a forum where I can control it a little better. Because Clubhouse, you're not you can't control it as much because there's moderators and you can't chat with the other person while you're on it. Right? So it's a little you you've gotta take that conversation elsewhere to nurture it.

Mark Evans: So tell me about your Clubhouse backstory. How long have you been on the platform? Who invited you? Was it immediately appealing or did you have to think about it?

Mallory Lee: I so I I saw Chatter on on LinkedIn and I had no idea what it was. And I messaged my friend Ariel Lee and I was like, hey, what's Clubhouse? Can you get me an invite? And she's like, I got you. So she got someone to give me an invite. And the first week, I like was on it way too much. I mean, I like was walking around with my headphones and ignoring my entire house. And I realized that that was too much. So you now have to be a little, you know, a little bit better where you put your time and stuff. I've been on it for a few weeks now and I enjoy it. I enjoy it now that I control it a little better. Like, it's really easy to get sucked in and, know, have that mentality where you just don't want to turn it off, but you you've gotta you've gotta be more wise with your time, think, you know.

Mark Evans: Yeah. It's like a shiny new toy especially for people who love social media and if you spend a lot of time on LinkedIn and you're seeing the benefits, there's almost a sense of FOMO because people don't wanna miss out on something. If Clubhouse turns about to be amazing, they don't want to be a laggard. One of the things I found is like you, I spent a lot of time on Clubhouse listening to random conversations, a lot of them about LinkedIn ironically. I was really amazed by the fact that people are so enthusiastic and so rabid about it. Do you think Clubhouse is addictive or you think it's just new and interesting and people just can't help themselves?

Mallory Lee: I think, you know, with the climate of COVID, everyone having to be on Zoom and look pretty and presentable, it's nice to easily be able to hop on a platform and not worry about what you're doing. Right? So that's something that I enjoy about it. Like, I could easily pop it out of my car or I'm getting ready for work or, you know, I I don't have to worry about how I look and I can still engage with these people that I otherwise would have in a Zoom situation too. Do you know what I mean? I think it's a great tool to use if you're using it correctly. And it's important to know too, it's not just about business. Like, I'm in a a nutrition one that I listen to on time to time. You know, there's other aspects of it that's beyond just, you know, the business side too.

Mark Evans: That's interesting because the more that I explore Clubhouse, the more that I realize there's rooms about everything and anything. And I think what makes Clubhouse appealing these days is a lot of people are feeling disconnected and lonely and isolated and they also they want to connect with people, like minded people really easily and Clubhouse is a great platform of that and I think one of the things I like about Clubhouse, if you can get an invite, is that any room is available to anyone and for the most part you can raise your hand, get on stage, and participate. And I think that's it's almost like they're democratizing the platform. I think that's the really interesting thing about Clubhouse.

Mallory Lee: I think if you're gonna start out in your first learning, really just learning etiquette too. When we first started, there was a bunch of us that would get in a room and just talk about clubhouse etiquette and just making sure that you're not over speaking the moderators and you're asking appropriate questions and you're not rambling on. Right? You need to treat it like a a forum where you're asking experts questions versus we're having a conversation to have fun. Do you know what I mean?

Mark Evans: One of the things that I'm interested in is just a lot of people are trying to see the value of Clubhouse both professionally and personally because it can be a rabbit hole. You can get on Clubhouse and an hour or two hours later you're still listening and still participating. So far you've been on it a short time, what's been the value to you? Like what are you getting out of Clubhouse that is gonna make it part of your social media portfolio?

Mallory Lee: I think because I've I've been very like methodical about how I use it and I don't just go on there and not connect with the people that I'm engaging with because they're starting to get to know me especially because I moderate rooms a lot and I host rooms too that I where I'm the subject matter expert. I always make sure I connect with them on LinkedIn. So I'm able to because someone might be in the room with me and I'll never see them again. Right? Where I maybe had a good conversation with them. Where if I pull that conversation onto LinkedIn, I can kind of nurture it. I think that's been the most beneficial thing for me. And I've met really good people that have become great connections for me and now they're in my my professional network, which I think is really helpful.

Mark Evans: So if someone's new to Clubhouse and they're trying to be strategic about the content that they consume and the rooms that they participated in, can you give them some tips? Because it is very hard a) to know exactly where to be because Clubhouse doesn't really have a good scheduling interface yet. So how do you identify the places where you should be or you want to be and then plan it within your schedule?

Mallory Lee: So I I would start here. I would look with I wouldn't go into scheduled rooms quite yet. I would if you you probably have a friend on Clubhouse if you're on there. Right? Because you have to have an invite. I would look in your app to see people that you're following, which rooms they're in and go into those rooms. Because then you've already got, like, you know, someone that you know and usually that'll say, like, oh, my friend so and so just popped in the room if I'm moderating. And I think it'll help you get more comfortable with the platform and then start popping onto rooms that you don't know the person or you're it's it's like a new a new room for you. That's how I got most comfortable with it.

Mark Evans: So a lot of people start on Clubhouse, they they're just participants and they don't wanna say anything, they don't wanna raise their hand, they're terrified to go on stage and then people get a little brave or they raise their hands, they get on stage and it's kind of like where I live in Canada, we go to the cottage and you jump in the lake. So it's kind of like being on the dock of the in the lake, right? You you know it's gonna be cold or you think it's gonna be cold and you wait and wait and someone shoves you in and then suddenly it's not as cold as you think and that's what Clubhouse feels like. So once you get on stage, it's great. Then you wanna host a room but you've become a very popular moderator. Like, I've used you for three of our rooms and it's been great. So how did that happen?

Mallory Lee: I have no idea. No. I you know, I think when when we we would just host these rooms about LinkedIn and we would my friends and I would make each other moderators and because you need at least two moderators in case you get kicked out of the room as the moderator because your whole room will collapse. Right? So we started doing it and then I realized it was kind of fun. So I hosted my own rooms a couple of times and then, people just started asking me to moderate. And it's it's definitely it was nothing I've ever done before. So it was a skill that I kind of had to learn. And I'm a polite southern woman and sometimes I feel like I have to be a little pushy, you know, controlling a room, but it's just so we can make sure the flow of the conversation is done well. And so I it's it was just kind of interesting. It happened very organically and I and I do enjoy it.

Mark Evans: Couple questions. One is what makes for a good moderator? What are the skills that you need? How do you make a room flow and make everybody feel included and engaged and and make it open to participate? And two, if someone asked you to be a professional moderator, would that be something that you jump into?

Mallory Lee: Sure. That sounds fun. I like I mean, I like to talk. So I mean, you know, I've almost lost my voice by the end of every day. But, I I think one of the things that when you're moderating is you're gonna have questions and answers. And so I've noticed rooms go a couple ways. They either are people are very engaged, Right? And they ask a lot of questions or they're not. There's no between. And so if you you're whoever your subject matter expert is, it's good to give me some questions to ask you. So that way, if it does get a little bit of a lull in the conversation, we're not just him and and Han trying to figure it out. And then as the subject matter expert, having to be able to pipe in and give some information. Also too, when you have someone that is asking questions or helping, like, having the conversation with you that is on stage, when maybe it's gone long or someone else is waiting to ask the question, learning how to pipe in politely and move to the next person. I've I've kind of gotten better at that. And a little trick I've learned is whoever is on whoever I'm moderating with, I have them on chat, LinkedIn, where I can message them while I'm on it. So if I need to help, like, almost like a back way of saying, hey. Need help here or hey. Say this real quick. It really helps drive that conversation that way too.

Mark Evans: So what makes for a good room? Some rooms are awesome and you get a lot of value out of them and some they just drone on and on and it seems like the hosts are more interested in promoting themselves than actually having a conversation. So in your experience, what makes for a good roommate?

Mallory Lee: I think having an actual topic with talking points that you're gonna discuss and keeping it on that topic won't be a good room. Like, you you have to stick to what you're speaking about. So I just did a room about creating a badass culture in your company. And I did that with someone who is in leadership and has a a consulting company for leadership. And we somehow, everyone in our room was car dealership people. I guess one went in there and then everyone followed them and I was like,

Mark Evans: that's crazy.

Mallory Lee: Yeah. And so I like I had to kind of tailor the conversation to them because it was, you know, it was all about car dealerships, but we were able to talk about leadership in that. So it really being able to adapt to is very helpful.

Mark Evans: The question that I have when it comes to rooms is how do you get people to actually come to a room? Because there can be rooms where it's crickets. Right? No one shows up and you're sitting there going, hope someone appears. All the rest is gonna be just me and my other moderator and some rooms are packed. What are some of the tricks? Is it the number of followers you have? Do you ping people? Do you invite people off-site? How do you do that?

Mallory Lee: So I will just screenshot the Clubhouse, like, invite and then just post that. I've seen that's I believe that helps a lot. But also, what I recommend and, like, have the moderators do this as well, the entire time I'm on that room, I'm pinging. Anytime. Like and I don't just do it in the beginning. I do it, like, every five minutes. I'll ping ping people that I follow. Whenever And I'm in a room, I follow people. So if I'm following them, I can ping them. And that's helped a lot. And then what's cool is a lot like I said, like a lot of people will go in rooms where they know people. So I think that's how this one with this car dealership happened. We we we had like 10 people that worked in car dealerships, so it's so interesting. So they just probably saw their friend go in there and, you know, pinged. I've never asked anyone in the room to ping anyone, but, I mean, I don't see they're they're they're wrong in doing that. That might be a way too.

Mark Evans: Yeah. Exactly. So here's a loaded question given that Clubhouse is about a year old, it has nine employees, it just raised another round of venture capital. People figure that it's probably valued at about half $1,000,000,000 these days, which is pretty crazy considering it has no revenue. Where do you think Clubhouse is going? Where would Clubhouse be a year from now if you and I decided to do another podcast?

Mallory Lee: I think that my thought is that eventually it you'll be able to go in a room. And I've heard, like, maybe they're talking about you might be able to tip the person that's speaking. I think that's might be a monetized maybe companies will sponsor rooms, so that's how they would be monetized. Like, that's where I'm seeing it. And and and you joked, mean, maybe there are people that are professional moderators. I it's really interesting. It's it's so fresh and so new. It'll be interesting to see where it goes.

Mark Evans: Yeah. I mean, one of my theories is is that Clubhouse will turn into some kind of podcast platform where it's interactive, it's engaging, it's not just the two of us talking, it'll be people from the audience as well. And maybe Clubhouse will allow people to record rooms and then they can repurpose the content in another place. That may be somewhere something that they could offer as a paid service.

Mallory Lee: Well, and it's and if I I can see like teams using it and companies is but like big companies where they need to be able to easily conference people into a room. So maybe they don't wanna do video, but they need to have like a quick team meeting and there's 20 people on the you might then I could see them charting companies to do that. Right? So then you could host your own private room to have a quick team meeting across the country, especially with this climate of of working from home. Right?

Mark Evans: I think it's gonna be fascinating as Clubhouse opens up the platform to more people including Android users. Apparently, that's coming soon. And and and Clubhouse could be anything and everything depending on how you wanna use it. Let's switch gears a little bit and talk about you and what you do when you're not on Clubhouse. So you offer fractional COO services. What does that mean? Who do you work for? How do you deliver value? Give me the story of Mallory Lee.

Mallory Lee: So I owned I owned a company. I was a CEO of a company when I was a little younger. I ended up buying that company. And I sold it and I was like, what do I love on a daily basis? And it's operations. Like, are my jam. So I go into companies and I fix their operations, create them, write their process manuals, helps them with their employee culture. We we do like a full review of how their business operates and we perfect it. And I work for myself. It's really fun. I really enjoy it because I can I own a business? I know what it feels like to, you know, pay all your bills and not be able to pay yourself. I know those struggles of starting a company and then I know the the fruits of your labor and saying, hey, I did this really great thing and now I have all these employees that are like loving what they do. So I just wanna pass that knowledge on to other business owners and it's been a lot of fun and we've been able to help a lot of companies.

Mark Evans: So if you're a business owner, what are the challenges or the opportunities that you can you can help them with? Why would they call you?

Mallory Lee: So I always okay. There's two things that I really harp on, and one is that disorganization breeds frustration. So if your company is disorganized, you're gonna have frustrated employees. Frustrated employees have turnover. So if I can go in and fix those operations and make sure that it's a well oiled machine, you take the guesswork out of their job, and it makes it a lot easier. And then one of the things I've noticed, like, especially in the smaller business market, is there's never like an organizational chart. There's never, we're here, we wanna get to there. It's always, this is where we are right now. And so we I'm making my clients create a five year plan, ten year plan, create positions on a piece of paper that don't exist. So that way when their employees are, like, looking at this is where the company wants to go, they know that if they put in the work and help the company grow, that there's a place for them later. So that's something that we I really, like, focus on as well.

Mark Evans: So you're based in Knoxville. Do you do business just in Knoxville or can you work with anybody anywhere?

Mallory Lee: Anybody anywhere. I prefer, you know, I like for my clients when they need more fractional services where they need me, you know, a few hours a week. I like going into their actual operation, but I can work with any anyone. We also do a full review of their their company, and I I have a system where I can plug everything in and we can get a a really interesting pulse on where they are with their business from marketing to their profit and loss to their culture. And it's I I I throw that in with all my clients when we do things and it's really helped, get a pulse on their their business.

Mark Evans: Has been great insight into Clubhouse and and to what you do when you're not on Clubhouse. So final question, where can people find you and where you are online on LinkedIn, on Clubhouse, and any other places?

Mallory Lee: So my LinkedIn is just Mallory Lee. Look for the redhead and my Clubhouse is Mal, m a l l e. First part of my first name, of my last names. So easy to find me there.

Mark Evans: Awesome. Well, thanks for the time, Mallory. We really appreciate and looking forward to listening to you on Clubhouse, participating in some rooms together. Thanks everybody for listening to another episode of Marketing Spark. If you enjoyed the conversation, leave a review and subscribe via iTunes or your favorite podcast app. For notes on today's conversation and information about Mallory, visit marketingspark.co/blog. If you'd like to suggest a guest or learn more about how I help b to b SaaS companies as fractional CMO consultant and adviser, send an email to mark@marketingspark.co. We'll talk to you next time.