How a B2B Marketer Successfully Embraced TikTok

Transcript lightly edited for spelling and punctuation. The conversation is unabridged.

Mark Evans: Hey. It's Mark Evans, and you're listening to Marketing Spark. One of the most interesting parts of the B2B marketing landscape is watching marketers do their own marketing. I see a lot of it on LinkedIn, my social media platform of choice. There are marketers who create text posts, videos, carousels, and, of course, polls. Yeah. But believe it or not, there is life beyond LinkedIn for B2B marketers. And one of the most intriguing places is TikTok. Yeah. TikTok. It's no longer just a social media platform for goofy videos, but a place where B2B marketers can successfully leverage. And a marketer who appears to have cracked TikTok is Stephen Pope, who runs SGP Labs in L.A. For Stephen, TikTok has become a lead gen machine, so I'm excited to have him on the podcast to talk about his approach and keys to success. Welcome to Marketing Spark.

Stephen Pope: Thanks, man. I appreciate you being on, or I appreciate I'm always saying that because I appreciate being on your show. I actually love being interviewed, so I'm really excited to be here, and I'm really honored. Thank you.

Mark Evans: We connected about a year ago, like many people, on LinkedIn. So I'd like to start by getting into your LinkedIn journey.

Stephen Pope: Sure.

Mark Evans: It's a platform that you and I have embraced and seen tremendous ROI. So how did you get into it, and how has LinkedIn evolved for you, or how has your approach to LinkedIn evolved over the last year?

Stephen Pope: Oh, yeah. That's a great, I actually love that question. So I sold one of my companies, or the main company that I built a couple years ago. And then after I started the next one, which I've actually gone through several pivots to where I am now, I had, you know, seen GaryVee. He had been talking about LinkedIn. He had been talking about content. I just kind of, like, I drank the juice, ultimately. Like, I'm one of those people where if I see somebody being successful at something, I don't have that many doubts. I might have doubts in myself, but I don't have doubts in what it can do. And so I was just like, you know what? I'm going to go on LinkedIn, and I'm going to do what he says. I'm going to start doing videos, and I'm going to go for it. And so that's what I did. And I started posting every day just like he told me to do. Didn't know what I was doing. And I started to do a couple videos, like, tearing my hair out, to be quite honest with you. You can go back to my first LinkedIn video. I still left it there just for memories. I'm just really stressed out. And then I ended up taking a video course that helped me kind of learn how to articulate my ideas and get on camera. And then just to kind of, like, I've actually gone through quite an evolution because you get a lot of advice from people. And I'll tell you one of the worst pieces of advice I got is join an engagement group, which is, if people don't know what that is,

Mark Evans: It was pods.

Stephen Pope: Yeah. It's a group of people that pretend to, or not pretend, but they share links and content, and then they all go in there and they all engage in everything. And all of a sudden, you're like, you were nobody, and all of a sudden, you're getting, like, 50 likes and comments a day. And you feel really good, but then you don't ever learn how to make really good content. So that was kind of the beginning. I actually, right after I got on LinkedIn, I did get, like, I got a client, like, within the first week, which I thought was pretty cool. But I quickly learned. I quickly, basically, I started to get really in tune with, like, how I was feeling about what I was doing. And pretty quickly in those engagement pods, I would go to sleep, and I'd even talk to my wife, and I'd like, "This is ridiculous. Like, what are we doing in here?" I'm engaging with people that I don't even like their content. They have nothing to do with what I'm doing. And so I quickly got out of that, and I started the journey of really learning how to create content that performed on its own. And that started to reap the benefits, and I started to get clients from that, people reaching out to me. And over time, that has kind of snowballed. And it's really the more and more I focused on creating value, like, showing people what they could be doing, showing what life could look like if they were doing these different things, dispelling certain things that they didn't know or things that they didn't know but they needed to know and showing them that, then, things just started to get better and better. And so I just kept doubling down on that and kind of trying to find my own voice and, like, what made me comfortable and what felt right.

Mark Evans: What I'm curious about, as someone who also produces a lot of content on LinkedIn. I'm curious about how you think the platform is treating content creators these days. You've got creator mode, which we'll talk about later. There seems to be a lot more people creating content as well. Do you think that LinkedIn rewards content creators? Do you think that it's tougher to get the spotlight these days because there's more people creating content?

Stephen Pope: It does seem harder. I always do wonder, like, do those engagement pods drown other people out? You know? And we can talk about creator mode later, but I don't think that they're really empowering content creators, really, from my point of view. I think to empower content creators, you give them help to create. And I think that's why platforms like TikTok are doing well is because they invented a new way to create content. You know, they created a really cool app that lets you record videos within the app, and you can edit it, and you can add captions. You can do all this stuff within ten minutes. And I think that is the innovative thing. They, like, created real tools. So, and then I know, and then you do see a lot of people getting banned. I don't know specifically about any of those specific situations other than people complaining a lot, but it does seem like a large number of people getting banned. So, I, you know, it's like, I don't know what it is, but, like, when a lot of times when corporations get really large and they're dealing with a lot of stuff, it's like individual, you know, individual people just seem to get crushed. But I would say this too. It's like, number one, just because you create content doesn't mean you deserve a client or something. Like, you do have to create good content. I think the first step of creating content is to commit like I did and like you did. But then the next thing is, like, the next bar is, like, it has to be really, really good content. So that won't happen overnight, but you have to make that immediate switch. You have to say, "Okay." I committed, but now I've got to make it really good. It has to be better than everyone else's. Has to be more informative, has to be more, has to grab more attention. And you have to be patient as you get there, but you do have to make that next leap. I think people that are creating good content, they do find their voice, and you're also developing the skills to move to another platform like TikTok. There are some annoying things that happen on LinkedIn.

Mark Evans: I'm curious about what prompted your exploration of TikTok because for many B2B marketers, TikTok is a nonstarter. They don't want to be there. LinkedIn is the place to be. What was it about the platform that intrigued you?

Stephen Pope: Number one, like, about a year and a half ago or a year ago, before I had gotten onto LinkedIn, I had downloaded the app, and I was just kind of exploring it. And I thought it was interesting that what was going on there. And then I just had the realization. I was like, "Wait a minute." If I'm there looking at content, then maybe there's not as many of me. So I'm 42. So maybe there's not as many of me, but there's going to be more. If I'm there, then I knew that there was going to be that there was potential there. And I also realized, "Hey." I'm going there to be entertained. And then so then I was like, "Okay." So then if it's just my message that pops up instead of me dancing, there's no reason why somebody wouldn't, as long as it's valuable and if I'm talking to another person like me, then there's no reason why that it couldn't just be my content. And then I started also kind of breaking down these, I think sometimes we talk about B2B and B2C and all this stuff, but I always just look at it as like E2E. I'm an entrepreneur talking to other entrepreneurs. I'm a person talking to people. So to me, I just think that way sometimes. Like, I don't like, because otherwise, you get yourself boxed in. Like, "Well, there's no other businesses there." So, but it's just people. There's people if, you know, if there's people there that are running businesses, then I can talk to them. And then I also knew that eventually LinkedIn would get crowded and that TikTok, you'd see people blow up overnight, like, video. Like, I've literally had one video on TikTok that kind of changed the trajectory of my business. And so I think when you go to a platform early, you have those interesting opportunities just like the people on LinkedIn that got in early. You see how they're doing now. And they have just a larger following. They have more likes, more comments, more exposure. And I just was like, "Hey." I feel like I could go to TikTok and do the same.

Mark Evans: Yeah. I don't know whether you were smart or prescient or just got lucky at the right time, but it is interesting you mentioned life beyond LinkedIn and the fact that LinkedIn may be losing some of its momentum. It's getting more crowded. You could argue that a lot of the enthusiasm for Clubhouse, for example, was the fact that people were looking for something different. I sense that there's a desperation, or maybe not desperation, but a hunger for another platform because people like me and I think you recognize that the runway for LinkedIn, sort of that open space that we can run free and attract a lot of leads, is running out. Right. You've got to have another plan. You need Plan B, or you need another play. I know I totally commend what you're doing on TikTok, and, obviously, it's paying off. Just wanted to get into how you got started. And what are some of the lessons that you've learned both in terms of what to do and what not to do on TikTok?

Stephen Pope: Yeah. And just one note about that, before I go in. The other thing is, like, so people also get frustrated with the platform either because it's actually your reach is diminishing and you're not reaching as many people or because you haven't really done a good job on the platform anyway. And so, like, you haven't, so you're kind of like, you just have shiny object syndrome, and you're just like, "Oh, I want to go do something else," even when you haven't really given LinkedIn a chance. So you've got to give these things a chance. But so I will say, I was able to grow faster on TikTok because I had already been creating content for a long time. So I knew how to do videos. I knew how to capture attention. I knew how to write headlines. So when I make a video on TikTok, I do talk quite quickly compared to the way other people do, and I've developed that skill over time. Sometimes, every once in a while, people tell me I talk too quick, which probably is fair feedback. But what I do on TikTok is I tell you exactly what you're going to get within the first three or four seconds of watching my video. I say, "Let me show you how you can generate 20 leads in the next week. Let me show you how you can make a video that is going to capture people's attention." So I get right to the point. There's no little space in between when my video pops up between when I start speaking. You know, I usually have a little bar at the top that reinforces what I'm about to talk about. I get to the point really quick. I try to show, like, actual stuff so you can see me going around on my whiteboard and trying to demonstrate things. So I think there's kind of two different ways of going about getting attention on TikTok is, like, if you're being entertaining, you might not have to take that approach. Like, if you're being funny or you're playing a really cool piece of music and people connect with that, you might not have to capture people's attention like that. But I think from in terms of what I do, which is, like, coaching people on how to do things, for me, in particular, it's important to be very upfront about what you're going to get and then show you the information very quickly and not lose your attention throughout the thing. So then, to answer your other question, what I see a lot of people do is when their TikTok starts, it's like, "Oh, hey. You know, how are you doing? This is what I'm going to show you today." And by then, somebody's already gone.

Mark Evans: Right. Got it.

Stephen Pope: Got it. So, and one final thought. The interesting thing about TikTok is there is a huge opportunity to grow right now, but it's also very competitive. So, like, you do have to use some of those tactics so that you are viewed, if that makes any sense.

Mark Evans: You mentioned earlier that there was a TikTok video that blew up and generated or basically changed the trajectory of your business. Curious about what you were talking about and why you think it resonated.

Stephen Pope: Yeah. And that's an interesting story too because I had done an earlier video which had done pretty well. And then I had looked back and I said, "How can I make that one better?" So I'll tell you. So all it really was was a post on how do you repurpose, how do you create a ton of content and generate a lot of business from a video podcast? So it's nothing different than probably a post that you've made about how do I take a video podcast and turn it into little clips and something that Chris Walker would have talked about or GaryVee would have talked about. All I did is do my own version of it, said, "Hey. Here's how I take, here's the marketing strategy that you can take." And, it all revolves around a video podcast and creating, sending that to the podcasting platforms, and then this is how you can create a blog from it. And then kind of how the second one blew up is that I looked at the first one, and I made a few critical tweaks. And the tweak was the first one I said, "Steal my marketing strategy." And then the second one was, "Steal this marketing strategy that's generating $9 million for one of my clients and also generated them 10 new clients in one month."

Mark Evans: Right.

Stephen Pope: So I adjusted it to put all the results up front so it had a lot more meat to it in terms of, like, you should this is why you should actually do it other than just, like, stealing my marketing strategy that doesn't work. You know? And then I also improved some flow of it. So that was it, man. And then it just got, like, 200,000 views. And a lot of people get more views than that and have more followers than me that hit a certain percentage of the market and booked a ton of leads and booked me business. And then I've had several others that have done the same thing.

Mark Evans: So let's talk a little bit about actual tactical execution. Like, how do you, what does that look like? How long are your videos? Do you script them? Walk me through sort of the nitty-gritty of creating a TikTok video.

Stephen Pope: Again, like, I have a little bit of an advantage here because I've created so many videos. I used to script every video kind of like StoryBrand. What do people want? What's the problem? Why should they listen to me? Display some empathy that I understand them. What's the process to actually go through to achieve what I'm about to tell you? And then calling them to action. Not necessarily a call to action to buy my course, but to, like, "Hey." If you do this, this is what's going to happen. If you don't, this is what's going to happen. So that's my general script that I follow on every video that I ever create, every LinkedIn post. That's the flow I use. So these videos that I'm doing on TikTok are generally 30 seconds to 45 seconds. And I'm following that makeup, and they take me about 10 minutes to 15 minutes to make because I can do the entire thing within the TikTok app. I don't need to send it to a video editor or anything like that. I do send it to a video editor after that to repurpose it to other platforms. So what I usually do is, like, my tactical execution is I'm talking to the camera. I tell people exactly what they're going to get. "You're going to get this marketing strategy. This, you're going to learn how to automate this. This is going to help your business this way." And then I usually kind of, like, head to my whiteboard. I've drawn something out like a diagram. I think it's all very rough. It's not. I have pretty messy writing. I haven't washed my whiteboard in a while, it's got that black streak. Yeah. And it doesn't really seem to bother people. So I'm literally just taking my phone and going over the whiteboard or if I use an application like Zapier or something, I will just point the phone at the screen, and I will record it. So, like, it's very raw and uncut, or it's actually very cut. Like, you can with the TikTok app, you can go in and you can record your video in chunks. So if you screw up, you can just erase the previous chunk, which is pretty cool. Right? So, like, you don't have to, I don't have to do the video in 45 seconds without making a mistake. So I can record in these little chunks and then you can go in there and then you can actually clip each little chunk to pull off any space. So, like, if you look at my videos, there's no space without me talking. But when I recorded it, there was. Right.

Mark Evans: And is it hard to create a video, like, technically hard, I mean, on TikTok? Or is it?

Stephen Pope: No. It's actually really easy. That's what, yeah. That's what I was going back to our original question about what LinkedIn is not doing for people, this is what TikTok did for people. It created a really cool app to let you make videos. And so it's really easy to make it. Like, a video that took me 15 minutes, I kind of stopped counting, but it booked over, you know, 25 or 30 calls.

Mark Evans: Well, and I guess that's the other question I had about TikTok. What are some of the key metrics, and how do you measure the success of your TikTok efforts? And what KPIs, for lack of a better term, do you focus on?

Stephen Pope: Well, you know, I'm looking at my follower count. So, like, I have, like, coming up on 16,000 followers. I've done that in a few months, and I surpassed what I ever did on LinkedIn. And then I look at the views. So what's interesting about TikTok is that you could have a video that has 300 views, and then you could have one that has 200,000 or 2 million. I've never had 2 million, but people do. So you have this huge range of organic opportunity, which you might say is a bad thing, but it's actually really a good thing. So you could have no followers, and you could have a video that gets 2 million views. So I look at the views, and the views tell me a lot. It's like, "Okay." So on LinkedIn, it's like you have a little bit of a variance. You might have a couple of posts here or there that just goes nuts, and you have no idea why. But with TikTok, that variance is very telling. It's like, "Okay." People aren't into that. Like, what I will say is, like, on TikTok, if you have more general advice, like, this is how to develop a marketing strategy. If it's too generic, it doesn't tend to do as well than if it's, like, really specific.

Mark Evans: One of the things I want to do with you is rapid-fire round. But before we get into it, I'm curious about your video setup and some of the recommendations that you have for people looking to get started with video or to raise their games. Walk me through your camera, your mic, your editing software, and give me some sort of shortcuts and tricks that people can use to make really good videos.

Stephen Pope: Yeah. So, on this, there are two approaches. So on my individual videos that I push to social media, it's all on my phone. I do have lighting in my room, so I do use that. But when it comes to the short TikToks and all that kind of stuff, it's just my phone. I don't let anything get in my way. I don't worry about too much of the quality. I could probably get a better phone and all that kind of stuff. So but then when it comes to, like, my podcast or my live show, I have a green screen. The main thing that makes that look good is I do have an arsenal of lights. Is this a video podcast?

Mark Evans: Yeah. It's a video podcast. Yeah.

Stephen Pope: Because I think I could actually show, so people can see me. I can actually show you the behind-the-scenes. So, this is, let me move that real quick. So this is what it looks like. So I got the green screen behind me, and then I've got kind of an arsenal of lights. And these are all very cheap, actually. So these are the best ones I've found. They're Amazon LED lights that are also encased in a diffuser. And then I have this ring light here. I've got this light up here to kind of light the top of my head because the main thing that makes a green screen look good is a very crisp, very well-lit green screen. And so this lights the top of my head, gets rid of the darkness around that. And then, because I'm doing live streaming, I have some other stuff. But just in terms of, like, the basic stuff, then I also have a Logitech Brio, which is probably one of the best webcams you can buy. I do have another, like, a DSLR. It's a Lumix G6 or G7 or something like that. I haven't set it up only because I know I can make it look better, but to make it look better than the Brio, you have to kind of learn some stuff, and I haven't learned it yet. And then the microphone I use is the Shure SM7B.

Mark Evans: Cool setup. For all the video geeks out there, behind the scenes look is is pretty awesome. Okay. Well, let me let me get into the into the into the rapid fire round. And so you can answer these questions. You can say one word. You can riff. It really is up to you. So you're ready for this?

Stephen Pope: Okay. I'm ready.

Mark Evans: Social audio, also known as Clubhouse.

Stephen Pope: You know, I never got into it, partly because I do a lot of video, partly because you have to dedicate, like, specific time to it. So I'm gonna for me, it was overrated, and I just could never make my I could never make the time. I had ideas with it, and I just never executed on it.

Mark Evans: Content marketing.

Stephen Pope: Oh, man. I love it. It's not only fun it's not only fun, but it works really well when you really commit to it and you make good content. Think it's probably the best way to grow your business at this point.

Mark Evans: Blogging, otherwise known as the workhorse of content marketing.

Stephen Pope: I think that's probably a really good thing. It's harder for me. I'm doing it now only because I I found that I can take a transcript of my podcast, and I have an SEO strategy, and I've been able to mix that and send it to a good writer. So that's part of my longer term thing. If I didn't have that, I probably wouldn't do it. But I think it's probably smart if you can figure figure out how to do it. Podcasts. I love them. It's funny. I don't listen to that many, but I think it's it's I love to be interviewed on them. I love to have my own. And I think it's a great way to create content. I have a prospect right now that's you know, may I I don't know if they're gonna close, but I hope they do. But but before the sales call, they said, hey. I've watched, like, four of your podcasts. It also helps me It helps me create content. So the people don't understand all the numbers, like, people focus on, oh, how am I gonna get a lot of subscribers? To me, it's like, that's probably a good long term thing to have, but it does so many different things for you right out of the gate, as you know, that probably very underrated.

Mark Evans: A guest that you really want on your podcast.

Stephen Pope: GaryVee.

Mark Evans: That's an obvious answer. Instagram for B2B marketing. Go or no go?

Stephen Pope: Instagram, I don't know that well, so I just started to push content there. But it's just to, like, build out my system. So I don't really know I can't really give people advice on Instagram. Quora. Can't give people advice there either. I've read a lot of stuff there. So my guess is, like, most platforms is if you get dirty, create value there. It's probably harder to create value there and get noticed now because it's older, but my guess is, like, if you if you go there, like, on any platform and you provide value and people can find your stuff, that it's probably gonna pay off.

Mark Evans: Mm-hmm. How about Reddit?

Stephen Pope: That's another place that I haven't spent a lot of time. But but and and I from what I hear, it's kind of brutal. So you you might have to have a tough mentality to survive there. But my guess is, again, like, if you can if you have that tough mentality, it probably would work pretty well.

Mark Evans: LinkedIn Creator Mode.

Stephen Pope: Yeah. This one, I I just don't get. It it kind of annoys me because it it to me, it seemed like created more confusion than anything else. People people are talking about how it increased their engagement, lowered their engagement. I think it re it re revamped your profile. And I think it like, I don't think anybody cares what hashtags I have or what hashtags I write about. And it pushed my profile or the about section down. Yeah. I'm just not a fan. Maybe maybe at some point they make it more meaningful.

Mark Evans: LinkedIn Creator Mode on or off right now?

Stephen Pope: It's off.

Mark Evans: LinkedIn Polls, the scourge of LinkedIn or something that offers insight and research opportunities.

Stephen Pope: Well, it's funny. I did a LinkedIn Live today with a guy named Marcus, and he was kinda showing you how you can really use it to to basically, you know, drive business. So I think you could use it pretty strategically. I try like, I have my own opinions about, like, people's content and, like, how they use it. I try to kinda, like, because I'm a content creator and I'm usually trying to encourage people to get going, like, I try not to, like, you know, bag on people that do this or that. But to me, it seems like there's a lot a lot of people making polls and, like, I'm not sure why they're doing it. But I think if you use, like, everything, if you do it strategically, you could probably get some good use out of it, especially because I think right now LinkedIn is pushing the reach on those more than other posts.

Mark Evans: Top three iPhone apps or Android apps?

Stephen Pope: Yeah. So I use TikTok a lot. Excuse me. I use TikTok a lot, and I use LinkedIn a lot, and I use Gmail. I I I actually try not to, like, use my phone too much. It's it's kind of a a boring a boring landscape.

Mark Evans: The best business book that you've read recently?

Stephen Pope: One of the best business books that I've ever read is by Peter F. Drucker, and it was about management. But he went off on all sorts of stuff, and I thought that was one of the more insightful books that I read. He's just he's a consultant, and he's helped a lot of a lot of businesses. And he talks about, like, all the different types of businesses, all the different strategic maneuvers you can make. You can be the innovator. You can be the copier. And there was no judgment in the way he talked about all these different things. He just kind of exposed them. And I I would say that's probably the best book I've read recently.

Mark Evans: Well, thanks for all the great insights, Stephen. Where can people learn more about you and SGP Labs?

Stephen Pope: Yeah. So you can go to SGPLabs.com. You can always contact me there. I'm also on LinkedIn. You can just search for Stephen G. Pope. I should pop right up. Pretty pretty accessible

Mark Evans: if

Stephen Pope: you if you wanna chat or ask me questions. And you can connect with me, send me a DM, and usually get back to you pretty quick.

Mark Evans: Well, thanks for listening to another episode of Marketing Spark. If you enjoyed the conversation, leave a review, subscribe via iTunes, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app, and share via social media. To learn more about how I help B2B SaaS companies as a fractional CMO, strategic adviser, and coach, send an email to Mark@MarketingSpark.co. I'll talk to you next time.