How to Master LinkedIn from a LinkedIn Guru: Moritz Lang

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Mark Evans: You're listening to Marketing Spark, a podcast that delivers insight, tools, and tips for marketers and entrepreneurs in the trenches in twenty five minutes or less. For the past year, LinkedIn has become the platform to connect, comment, and post content. People stand out for different reasons. They carve out a distinct style or voice. And one of them is Moritz Lang, a digital marketing specialist in Stockholm, who spends a lot of time writing about how to use LinkedIn LinkedIn better. If you're new to LinkedIn or looking to raise your game, Moritz's posts are a must read. Welcome to Marketing Spark.

Moritz Lang: Thanks so much. What an intro. I feel very honored to be here. Thank you.

Mark Evans: Well, I've been really impressed. Actually, to take a step back, the way that I found Maritz is that I'm always looking about looking for ways to do better on LinkedIn. And I stumbled upon Maritz's post, and they were oozing with all kinds of good stuff on how to use LinkedIn better, how to post better, how to comment better, how to play with the LinkedIn algorithm, which we'll get into. And so I just thought it was a natural to invite him to the podcast, and I'm really glad you're here. So why don't we take a step back and talk about how you got started on LinkedIn? It's a question that I ask a lot of people because for a lot of us, it's only something that we've embraced in the past year. So can you provide a little context about how you may have used LinkedIn before and why you decided to change your approach and become much more active?

Moritz Lang: For sure. Yeah. I mean, you mentioned it, like, many of us started recently, so same for me or, like, quite recently. I had a LinkedIn profile for years, but I and I used it for to apply for jobs, I think, like many people do. And then when COVID hit last year, I got a bit more time at hand and I thought, how can I use that time? And I kind of was appealed by by LinkedIn and it was felt exciting and felt felt it kinda felt right. So I started to be more active and also started to put my voice out and to post about things. And in the beginning, I didn't have a clue what I was doing. So it was a big discovery and, like, exploring a lot. And to some extent, it actually still is, so that is quite exciting. But over the months, I also figured out a lot of things and made a lot of great connections like yourself. So and then I also started to share what I've learned on my way sort of. And, yeah, it's led to really beautiful things.

Mark Evans: The one thing I'm curious about when I talk to people who are active on LinkedIn and doing some amazing things and getting a lot of value from LinkedIn is how they explain the way that LinkedIn has transformed into what it is today compared to a year or even eighteen months ago when it was primarily a place for headhunters and job seekers. At some point in time, things changed, and it may have been people like you and me and and the millions of other people who embrace it in a different way. But can you offer any kind of explanation into why LinkedIn is the way it is and where do you think it might be heading in 2021 and 2022?

Moritz Lang: Yeah. Sure. I mean, it's mostly speculating, of course, but I think that it's just didn't did a really good job in bringing together people who who have similar interests. And also, like like, that's a marketing thing. Right? So be where your audience is. So kind of it kind of attracted itself. Right? So I think that's why people started to be more active. And because if you post if you if you do post and you share your views, it's a way of putting yourself out there and to show people your expertise. So if you have the attention already, so people were looking for jobs and you had companies who were posting jobs and looking for people and were posting about their accomplishments, So he had the attention there already. So then people start to make use of it more by posting their own content and showing, yeah, their expertise and also connecting. Right? So I think that's the main reason probably. And I think LinkedIn will continue to do so because I don't see any platform that's like can really compete with that. But yeah. It's gonna be interesting to see, and and I think LinkedIn is also doing a lot of changes. Like, now they start to do more events. LinkedIn Live is also not too old. So it's really exciting actually where where this will will go and that there's a lot of opportunities. That's the one thing that I'm sure about.

Mark Evans: Yeah. I mean, I think that Microsoft has the tiger on it by the tail with LinkedIn. I mean, who knew when it bought it for $26,000,000,000 that LinkedIn was gonna turn into what it is? And one of the things that I that I think is gonna happen is there's so much runway for LinkedIn to get better or to move into new things. And I think there's a lot of exciting things ahead into 2021. One of the things I wanted to ask

Moritz Lang: you Totally.

Mark Evans: Is is just to get a sense of how you're operating on LinkedIn. So how did you decide that you were gonna focus or spend a lot of time writing about how to use LinkedIn better? Was it by design? Did you sort of see an opportunity to step into this role? Did you start writing posts about how to use LinkedIn that resonated? What was it that dawned on you? This is what I should be doing. This is how I can carve out a distinct audience on LinkedIn. Maybe was there a method to the madness? I guess that's what I'm asking.

Moritz Lang: Well, I think it's kind of both. Like, it was a lot of coincidence because as I said, I was just sharing what I learned and what I learned about how LinkedIn works. So I was observing other people, what they were doing, and also following other people who were posting about, you know, some, like, sort of little LinkedIn tips and tricks. And I started to share that and also to think and to learn myself. Right? So when you start to to post, you learn a lot about what works, what doesn't work. So I started to share that and I got a lot of response to that. And then at and I'm really also interested and intrigued by what works, you know, like, kind of to figure it out, like the secret sauce. Mhmm. So being so intrigued by it, I really dug into what it is that I can do to make my my network grow and get more likes and comments. Of course, that's what you aim for. Right? Right. First. Yeah. So, like, a bit of chance, but then also kind of positive reinforcement, I would say.

Mark Evans: So I'm gonna ask you a difficult question and it surrounds the LinkedIn algorithm, which is a mystery. To me, it's a complete mystery. I have no idea how it works, why some post resonate and some fall flat, why people who write one line posts get tremendous engagement and other posts don't get any at all. What do you know about the algorithm? Like, what kind of secrets can you tell us? Because LinkedIn, to be honest, doesn't say much at all. It's almost like they've got this secret, they really don't wanna tell anyone because for whatever reason. Do you have any thoughts on what makes the algorithm work? What makes content resonate?

Moritz Lang: I mean, I always like, from the start, I actually thought about what's kind of I I I try to think logically from the LinkedIn algorithm. So what would make sense for the algorithm to to want to show? So basically, starting from the high goal of LinkedIn wanting you to spend as much time on the platform as possible. Right? Because that's one of the main ways that they make money. So the algorithm wants to show every user basically content that interests them, and they will keep their attention on the platform. So by providing this kind of content, you will automatically be shown a lot. And then it's about figuring out what kind of content the people that you're speaking to or that you want to speak to will capture their attention. So I think one of the most important things, and that's that's not really a secret, but like the you know, when you have the first few lines of your of your post, these are like the most important words you can write because

Mark Evans: Right.

Moritz Lang: You you want to draw people in and then also make people spend time on your post. Like, since half a year or something, the dwell time is has has become much more important. So I really try to also have, like, you know, like a sort of story to tell and be be interesting. But you first, you have to capture people's attention. And, of course, that works also really good if you're providing consistent content. So if you know, okay, Moritz is posting and I've read his previous posts and they were quite interesting, my my first lines kind of don't need so much power to convince you anymore because you will automatically think that you wanna read my post. So, like, being consistent, I think, helps and also building real relationships. So if you like, if people know and like you, they're much more likely to read your post than if they don't if they if they don't like you. So I think these are like little things to keep in mind. Of course, there's a ton of things that you should keep in mind like making the post more readable for so using a lot of white space, a lot of hitting enter a lot so that it's easy to read and not like huge text blocks using some emojis maybe to make it more appealing, asking questions so that people also start to write comments, which also counts as sort of the 12 time, I suppose at least, and also gives other people something to read. So there's a lot of like little things that that you can do, of course, but I always start to think from the main from the main reasoning of what does LinkedIn want, what do they wanna promote, and how can I sort of, yeah, provide that in a way not only to appeal LinkedIn, but also to help me and also the people that I want to talk to? Because, I mean, it has to be interesting for them. So it's a win win sort of.

Mark Evans: Yeah. Exactly. When I was a journalist, the first line of any article, we called it the lead. And after you wrote a great lead, then people might read the rest of the story, and the same thing applies to LinkedIn. One of the things I wanted to ask you about in terms of dwell time and capturing people's attention, what are your thoughts on a post that also include, like, an image or a carousel or a GIF, things that

Moritz Lang: Mhmm.

Mark Evans: Would make a post stand out? Are those a good thing to use from time to time? Are they distracting? Because I've heard different schools of thought. Some people say text only is the way to go, and some people say text plus visual is also effective. Any thoughts on that?

Moritz Lang: I'm personally a big fan of mixing things up. So I vary a lot between my content or at least I I try to. Having said that, I think most of my posts are usually probably text based and text plus image. And since a few months, I discovered the the slides, the carousel posts because, like I said, like, it keeps people's attention more. So if people, like, read your post and then also they scroll through the slides, you have text on them. This will these are all signals that people are sending. So if they slide, this is a signal for the algorithm. That's a good post. Right? So you want to provide sort of the the algorithm these kind of signals so that they so that the algorithm evaluates your posts better. So carousels are definitely something. I wanna get more into video. So this is one of my big challenges for for this year because I think you can get to know people much, much better. Like, having seen someone's face, having heard their voice, you can relate so much better. And that's what it's about in the end. Right? So having a good, like, mix, I also do some GIFs sometimes. I think they're kind of fun and they kind of also capture the attention. Right? So it's really about experimenting what works and being open to try new things in my opinion. You

Mark Evans: know, I've used video from time to time, probably like you should use it a lot more. What I found with video is it's hard sometimes to figure out whether it resonates or not. So I could do a text post and let's say get a thousand views. I could do a video post and get 200 views. And I'm not sure how LinkedIn counts a video view, but I do agree with you that it does put your personality front and center. It's a way of people connecting with you even if they're not connected because they can see that you're a real person. They can they can hear you. They can read your body language, and it does help you build a personality. And I guess on LinkedIn, that's a really important thing to do.

Moritz Lang: Videos used to be, like, a lot more get a lot more reach, but they're not anymore. So it's a bit, yeah, bad. But maybe, you know, like, you never know. Maybe LinkedIn will change their strategy again. I don't know why we just have little reach now, but I think it's still worth it to put some videos. And some some people only do video. So Yeah.

Mark Evans: Yeah. A guy like Chris Walker, for example, only does video, but he has video and text. And he's done really well and he's been doing that for years. So he's got an audience there. And you've got to believe that LinkedIn was somewhere within the algorithm. It says, showcase Chris Walker's videos, and that's how he does well.

Moritz Lang: Exactly.

Mark Evans: So let's shift gears a little bit and talk about if you're getting started on LinkedIn. If you've been on the sidelines or you've been sort of in and out a little bit and you're looking to embrace it in 2021, what are the fundamentals in terms of getting started? Where do I get started? What should I do out of the gate so that I can get some momentum, feel like it's working for me, and then really start to jump into the platform?

Moritz Lang: That's a good point that you mentioned. Feel like it's working for me because I think without positive reinforcement, it's kinda hard to keep it up for a longer time. I would say there's a few elements here, but having a decent profile at least that, you know, like having a picture, having a background image, then, a decent bio doesn't have to be perfect. I would never aim for perfect, and mine is far from perfect, actually. But just something that tells people what to do, your skills, your ex your experiences so that if they check you out, then they they they can connect to you. That's like the base. And then it's about getting engaged with other people's posts. So you don't need to post yourself from the start. I think commenting is bears a lot of value and you can build great relationships. And when you do that, I would I would also focus on big creators, so people who have a lot of following so that if you post a smart comment, many people will actually see it. Right? So you put your face out there and it's also there just trying to add value to the conversation. So that's that should always be the main principle sort of that you always try to add value to other people and to the conversation. So starting to engage with other people's posts. And if you then decide to post your own content, then I would say, just get started for one. Like, nothing should hold you back. You should just go ahead and get started and make these experiences because you learn by by doing and then also observing, analyzing what what works and also doing that with other people's content. So that's that's what I did a lot, analyzing what, like, other people did and then just experimenting with it myself.

Mark Evans: Yeah. One of the things that I see when people talk about creating content on LinkedIn is they overthink it. They they spend a lot of time, what kind of content should I post? How how well should it be written? And they they look at structure and topics, and then they end up not doing it. And and my advice to a lot of people is just do it. Write content. You'll get better in time, and and it's always about adding value. And the other thing I would say just relating to your thing about comments is comments are powerful. It used to be when blogging first started that commenting was amazing. A lot of the value in a blog post was the comments, and that's one of the things I like about LinkedIn is that people are enthusiastic about comments, and that's what keeps you going as a as a as a writer.

Moritz Lang: Totally. Yeah. Totally. I agree. I really love because what what I do is actually I sort of test ideas that I have. Right? And I test hypothesis. So I I give advice, and I think some is valuable, some maybe not. But I I always get feedback. Right? So I I improve my ideas, and this is by other people commenting on it or even DMing me. That's actually one tip that I forgot that you should build real connections with people by sending direct messages and, you know, starting to build relationships. That's that's where the real value lies.

Mark Evans: Yeah. And I and I would add that in addition to content, comments, and the other one is conversations is Mhmm. The fact that if you engage with somebody and you feel like you've got things in in in common, you should reach out to them and you should connect to them first and then reach out to them and say, I I like your content. I like I'm curious about what you do. Would you be open to a conversation? And that's the secret sauce out there is that a lot of people are very happy to talk to people if they sense a connection, and and that's something I would encourage a lot of people to do.

Moritz Lang: Absolutely. Yeah. And you build so great relationships with them. It's so rewarding. Right? Yeah. It's I can definitely That's

Mark Evans: a great value of LinkedIn. If you've been on LinkedIn for a while, let's say people like myself who have been creating content and were doing well and were commenting and making connections, do have any tips on how to up your game? Like, how do I get even better at LinkedIn? You know, you you don't wanna be doing the same things all the time. You always wanna be looking for ways to improve and iterate and just do a better job. Any thoughts about how people who use LinkedIn can even get better at it?

Moritz Lang: I think that depends a lot on your goals, so what you want to achieve. So there there there's no general answer here, I guess. But what I see other people doing is, for example, also trying out, again, different content formats, so trying to do video, trying to do these kind of conversations, so building real relationships. And what I see other people do who are who who I would say are successful on on LinkedIn, they try to make the audience their own. So, like, the transferring their LinkedIn audience to into an owned audience by having an email list or promoting some kind of offer that you may might be offering like an ebook or like a private community or taking them to other platforms. This is what I see people do. It's something that I look into, but I'm not really there yet. But I think that's how you can get even more value out of LinkedIn if if that's what you want.

Mark Evans: Yeah. One of the things that I'm looking at is forming some kind of mastermind group or some kind of sort of private community where I can connect with five or 10 people to provide insight into all kinds of things about marketing and positioning. So, yeah, I'm definitely with you there. I wanted to talk a little bit about how people who have done well on LinkedIn are can leverage other platforms. In particular, I'm talking about Clubhouse, which is the hot new audio only platform that has captured the imagination of many hardcore LinkedIn users over the past month or so. What are your thoughts about being all in on LinkedIn, doing a great job on LinkedIn, and then suddenly this other thing emerges, this other social network, and you also wanna be there as well? So I I see a lot of people spending a lot of time on Clubhouse and wondering how much time they're actually spending on LinkedIn, which has been very good for them over the last year. Any thoughts on Clubhouse and trying to split your your attention between two different platforms?

Moritz Lang: Yeah. That's a very good point. That's where I'm actually also still wondering whether I should do more Clubhouse or not. For now, I decided not to and more, like, listen in, spend a little bit of time to get to know the platform. I think you can use it with synergies though. So you can sort of take your your LinkedIn connections to the next level by again, they hear they hear your voice. They they hear you talk. They you get into real conversations with them. So I think sort of, like, for example, creating a room and telling your connections about it so that they can check it out. If they're interested, you build much better connections. And then also, you leverage the connection of of other people that you talk with. Right? I think that's and thus, you increase your LinkedIn audience as well because if you if, for example, we both would have a room, your audience or, like, your network would basically get to know me as well. And then I I think there there there should be a big connection to to LinkedIn though. I somehow heard, like, that Clubhouse is sort of the after party of and LinkedIn is the conference, which I kinda liked actually that that that image. So kind of like, you know, building the so the networking happens on Clubhouse, but the business happens on LinkedIn. Yeah. So making use of that.

Mark Evans: It is interesting because there's Clubhouse allows you to link to connect to Twitter and Instagram, but there's no LinkedIn connection for whatever reason. So you're seeing people this hack that goes on where people will connect with people on Clubhouse and then circle back and connect with them on LinkedIn and then try to get a conversation going. So it's a bit bulky right now, but I'm sure that Clubhouse will figure it out if LinkedIn lets it. Finally, the last thing I want to talk to you about is personal branding. You know, on LinkedIn, there's a lot of talk about personal branding and how to why to build a personal brand and how to do it. What are your thoughts about leveraging what are what are your thoughts on personal branding these days and and why it's attracting so much attention?

Moritz Lang: I think personal branding is a topic that's getting more and more important, and LinkedIn is a is a great place to to build your your personal brand combined with many other platforms as well. What I think personal brand is that you that people put you put yourself into people's mind as some kind of expert in some areas. So you wanna decide, like, what kind of person you want to be, how how you want to be perceived. And then that also ties in with the with the content strategy so that you post about these things that you want people to associate you with. And I think it gets more and more important as, like, people look to, you know, become more attractive to employers or if they're freelancing or have their own companies sort of, you know, get more get more attention there as well. So I think that's the main reason to sort of get more attention online.

Mark Evans: Great. Well, thanks, Marge, for appearing on the podcast and for your insight about LinkedIn and Clubhouse and all things, the other things that we talked about. Where can people learn more about you?

Moritz Lang: So far, it's definitely on LinkedIn. That's an

Mark Evans: obvious question.

Moritz Lang: Yeah. And I'm also actually in the in the process of setting up my own, like, website. So that's gonna be at molamarketing.pro. But it's not there yet, but I hope in a few weeks that I'm gonna be up there and people can connect with me there.

Mark Evans: K. Great.

Moritz Lang: So this this will keep me accountable.

Mark Evans: For anyone listening to this podcast, if you are looking for insight on how to get better with LinkedIn, then you should definitely follow Moritz. If not, connect with him. He's got some great content and a string of tips on how to use LinkedIn in in new and different ways and learn somehow the secrets of LinkedIn. Thanks for listening to another episode of Marketing Spark. If you enjoyed the conversation, leave a review and subscribe via iTunes, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. For show notes of today's conversation and information about Moritz, visit marketingspark.co/blog. If you'd like to learn more about how I help b to b SaaS companies as a fractional CMO, consultant, and adviser, send an email to Mark at marking spark dot co. I'll talk to you next time.