NOW is the Time to Jump on the B2B Podcast Bandwagon

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Mark Evans: My name is Mark Evans, and I'd like to welcome you to Marketing Spark, the podcast that delivers small doses of insight, tools, and tips from marketers and entrepreneurs in the trenches. By small doses, it's conversations that are fifteen minutes or less. Think of marketing spark as a snack rather than a meal. On today's show, I'm talking with James Carberry, the founder of Sweet Fish Media, which produces podcasts for b two b brands. James is also one of the hosts of b two b growth, a daily podcast for marketers. Welcome to

James Carberry: Marketing Spark. Thank you so much, Mark. I'm pumped about this conversation, man.

Mark Evans: As someone who just jumped on the podcast bandwagon, my initial thought was, why does the world need another podcast, especially another marketing podcast? What's your advice to people and companies thinking about starting a podcast? Because I know there's a lot of them out there who look at the popularity of podcast and say to themselves, is it time for us to do one as well? How do we get started? Is it too late? I guess that's the big question a lot of companies ask.

James Carberry: Yeah. It's it's definitely not too late. We actually just had an episode go live on b two b growth that that broke down five reasons why it's not too late to start a podcast. The biggest thing that we share with folks is, you know, it's easy to see the number in the headline. It's like, oh, there's there's a million podcasts now that are live. But when you start to dive into that million number, it gets really interesting because of those 1,000,000 podcasts, only a fraction of them are active shows that have released episodes in the last, say, ninety days. And then when you compare that 1,000,000 number of of the number of podcasts that are that are live to the number of YouTube channels, it's actually pretty daunting. The there's a 30,000,000 YouTube channels that are active and going today. There's a ubiquitous number of blogs, and no company is saying, no. We we don't wanna do video or we don't wanna do written content. And so I I think there's so much opportunity left in podcasting and it's easy to look and say, oh, you know, everybody's already doing them. Well, no. Nobody's nobody's there there are actually very few people doing them. And then you can drill even farther and say, are my buyers, how many podcasts are serving my specific buyer? So, you know, for you doing a marketing podcast, there there are there are a lot of marketing podcasts, but are there a lot of podcasts focused on the type of marketing that you do for the industry that you serve, for the size of companies that you work with, for the specific problems that your that your specific niche of marketers are focused on. Like, there's so many different ways to slice it that so many shows, they start and then they don't they don't continue. So you you can do a quick search in Apple Podcasts for marketing or some other like keywords that you're interested in starting a podcast around and see pretty quickly that very few shows are consistent. That's I think where you have an opportunity to win. And very few shows really niche on a specific on a more specific topic. So for us, it's b to b marketing. So that's one level deeper than than just marketing in general, and it's really worked well for us. We do a daily show and and we do we're actually doing multiple episodes a day now, and it's allowing us to to stand out. And we rank for the term b to b in Apple Podcasts. So there are always little tweaks you can make to to really stand out. And and I think there's a ton of opportunity.

Mark Evans: I think what I find interesting when I talk to some of my b to b clients, I raised the idea of a a podcast, particularly since I launched a podcast. I'm very enthusiastic about the format, and it's interesting in a couple of fronts. One is most of them have never considered doing a podcast. Kinda takes them by surprise and they do a double take. That's an interesting one considering they've, they've poured a lot of investment into ebooks and blog posts. The other thing that I find interesting when you look at the opportunities for podcasts is the is how it can spark lots of other content. So from a podcast, you can do a blog post or a video or even an ebook. I mean, you're looking at b two b marketing, you're always looking at ROI. In a sense, podcasts are almost a no brainer for b two b brands. Do you do you think that's the

James Carberry: right I completely agree, Mark. And I think you can even go further than that. Something we're starting to do with b two b growth, we're starting to build original research based on the post interview questions that we ask our guests. So again, we're doing multiple episodes a day at this point. And we just recently, in the last couple weeks, came up with a list of 11 kind of rapid fire questions. You know, what's what's the biggest challenge your marketing team is facing right now? What what channels are working best for your marketing team? What KPIs are your CEO looking at on a regular basis? Asking questions like that, we're actually we don't we don't put that in the podcast itself, but it's immediately following the podcast interview with our guest. We're gonna roll that content up into original research. I'm sure we'll use some of it for top of funnel stuff. We'll ungate it. And then some of it, we're actually gonna productize and sell this original research to the marketplace because people are hungry for this kind of data. I mean, you mentioned videos, blogs, audiograms. I mean, are so many different opportunities to repurpose the content from your show. It's another reason why I think even if your competitors have a podcast, going back to your first question, like, there too many marketing podcast? Can almost guarantee you that none of those shows are repurposing their podcast content on other platforms the way they should be.

Mark Evans: That's great insight. And I really like the idea of market intelligence. I mean, over the years, there's been organizations like Orbit Media that have provided some some good research We

James Carberry: love any.

Mark Evans: Podcasts and the growth of the industry. But what's interesting is that Orbit has, in a sense, dominated the landscape because they're one of the few companies offering this kind of insight. I think you're on the right track. I think there's a huge opportunity in in terms of offering business intelligence.

James Carberry: The other the other thing, Mark, that I'll mention here, it it's really what we've what we've baked really baked built our entire business around, and it's what we call content based networking. So the other reason podcasting is so strategic for b to b companies is because not only not only do the interviews allow you to create really great content with practitioners in your space, but you're also building one to one relationships with potential decision makers, potential people that can buy your product or service. With b to b growth, we ask VPs of marketing at b to b SaaS companies with 50 plus employees to be a guest on our show and create great content with them. Well, guess who's our buyer? A VP of marketing at a b to b SaaS company with 50 plus employees. So while we're creating great content, we're simultaneously building a genuine relationship with somebody that can potentially buy our service, our podcasting service, and it works. I mean, we've built our entire business on the back of this. It's why we do so many episodes because the short term benefit in b to b podcasting is biz dev. Now you you gotta be you you can't there there's a lot of room here to be be slimy about it. Yeah. Exactly. Cannot come it it has to come from a genuine place of wanting to create great content with your guest. But naturally, through the collaborative process, you're building a genuine relationship and people wanna buy from people that they trust. They don't wanna be sold to. If you can navigate that balance carefully of not, you know, not being too on the nose and not just not just right after the interview saying, so you want to buy from me? I think the folks listening to this are intelligent enough to know that's obviously not how you're gonna win new business. But building that relationship through the collaborative interview process and the pre interview you do, the promoting of the episode, naturally, that person is going to be connected and want to stay connected with you. And so that that's the thing that I will preach forever and ever and ever is people b to b company every b to b company should have a podcast really for that reason alone. And the con the content is almost icing on the cake. But the fact that it's a relationship builder for me is is the primary reason that it's such a big part of our strategy.

Mark Evans: Yeah. Well, that's an excellent point, particularly when you consider that it's so hard to connect with people. I mean, there's a lot of discussion these days about the value of MQLs. There's a lot of discussion about how more b to b brands are focused on account based marketing because they're looking to become more focused and try to develop those relationships. When you look at podcasting, again, it's a bit of a no brainer.

James Carberry: So Yeah.

Mark Evans: You're a b to b company. You're interested in podcasting. You in theory, you like the concept to how do you get started, and what are some of the keys to success? Now granted, that's a loaded question. Yeah. So so perhaps you can focus on some of the early steps that lay the groundwork for a good podcast.

James Carberry: So I think the first question you have to ask is what audience do we want to serve? Who who is our ideal buyer? Who's our or who's our most profitable buyer? We talk to a lot of folks who are like, oh, we have we have multiple people that buy from us. Well, if you sell finance and you sell to IT, who is your most profitable buyer? Who who are the relationships that are the most valuable to you? Okay. It's IT. Okay. Let's let's figure out then how can we create a show that your ideal buyers both would want to be a guest on and also would want to learn from your content. And so getting real clear on who your audience is gonna be, who your guests are going to be is step number one. And then the the biggest mistake I see, Mark, that companies make with their podcast is they want to brand their show around themselves and around their expertise instead of branding the show around their ideal buyer. So if you're selling let's say you you sell finance, some sort of finance tool. Your expertise is finance, but you're selling it to entrepreneurs. You shouldn't brand the show around finance. You should brand the show around the persona of your ideal buyer, which is entrepreneurs. What that does is it allows you to actually go interview your ideal buyers and tap into their expertise. It allows you to understand your buyer better, and it allows you to create content that other buyers are actually gonna want to consume as opposed to creating content around your expertise, which a lot of people think they need to do because they need to establish authority and establish that they know what they're talking about. But to really see results from b two b podcasting in the way we advocate for, which is both one to one relationships with guests as well as the reach that the content can get, it's it's really focusing on branding the show around your your buyer persona, around that ideal person that you ultimately want to work with. If you name your show around you and not them, you're getting off on the wrong foot, and it's gonna stunt, I think, the potential that you have to actually grow your business through your podcast.

Mark Evans: The other question would be, once you've established those foundations, how do you determine the right kind of content? I guess maybe the other way to putting it how do you make sure your content is good and that it's serving the needs of your target audience?

James Carberry: Yeah. So this is this is actually something that we're really starting to press into now. We're starting to build a methodology, what we call POV discovery. And this POV stands for point of view. And so what we're starting to do with the guests on our show is we go through a pre interview process for them. It's usually a fifteen minute call. Sometimes it goes a little bit over. But what we're trying to do is figure out this, you know, this guest for in our context, again, we sell to to marketing executives. So we're talking to a VP of marketing at a b to b SaaS company. And on the pre interview, I'm asking them them questions like this. I'll say, you know, so and so, what is a commonly held belief in b to b marketing that you just passionately disagree with? And then I just shut up and let them talk. And sometimes they'll have something that like really is like, oh my gosh, I wish people understood attribution, you know, in the way that I've learned to to figure it out or learn to think about it. Or they'll talk about ABM or they'll talk about something that they think is like grossly underrated. They'll get really excited. And then sometimes they won't they won't really they're like, I don't really know. And so I'll go on to another question. I'll say, hey, what is something that, you know, b to b marketers are doing right now that they should stop doing immediately? And and so or the other the flip end of that question is, you know, what's something that every that every b to b marketer is it's what what are they doing now that they should stop doing? Or what are they not doing that they should start doing? And it's asking questions like that that will actually allow you to figure out what's the unique point of view of your guest. And when you can touch on something that they get really fired up about, you now press into that and you start to you know that like, man, I can build an interview around this topic because this person has a lot of passion around it. And now what we then we phase them into what we call our what, why, and how framework, which is, okay, what are some unpack the idea that you have a differentiated point of view on. Talk about why this is, in your opinion, the right point of view, the right way to think about this. And then let's talk about how. How have you implemented this in your organization? What were some of the processes that you guys created? How did you actually bring this to life? And so the combination of the POV discovery with the what, why, and how questions ends up allowing you to create really, really good content even though it's not coming from your brain, it's coming from a guest.

Mark Evans: In theory, that sounds that sounds like a great approach, and it's definitely something that that I'm going to borrow from you. The other thing that I wanted to ask you is that personally, and this may be something that I've only experienced that that creating a podcast is pretty easy. I mean, the actual reaching out to people, interviewing people, editing the audio is relatively easy. The hard part, like anything, is is promotion and distribution because you can create something, but it doesn't really matter if no one reads it or listens to it or watches it. So maybe you quickly can give people a few tips on how to make the world aware of all the great work that you're doing.

James Carberry: So the biggest growth channel for b to b growth has been organic search within Apple Podcasts. And so many people sleep on podcast SEO within the podcast channels. But when people search b to b in Apple Podcasts, they find our show. When you are naming your show, I always recommend you name your show in a in a way that is clear and concise and not cute and fancy. So many people want to name their show around one of their core values or or something that is not getting searched in podcast search engines. For us, we noticed that we were ranking for people searching b to b, but when people searched b to b marketing or marketing, we were nowhere to be found. So we actually added a tagline to our show name in Lipson, which is the host the host that we use to host our podcast. And so now it's b to b growth colon, your daily b to b marketing podcast. Through that, we actually started ranking in Google for b to b marketing podcasts. And we also started ranking for b to b marketing in Apple Podcast itself. The majority of that SEO is gonna come from the name of your show and how you the name or the subtitle of your show. So that's one way to do it. Another way to do it is to be a guest on other podcasts by doing like kind of almost like a tit for tat, like, hey, I'd love to be a guest on your show, have you on my show. That's a great way to do it. You can do that with like co promo spots. We've done that with the marketing book podcast where we said, hey, we'll talk about your show for a month if you talk about our show for a month. Co promos work, being a guest on other podcasts work, repurposing your content into micro videos on LinkedIn or just other types of content on LinkedIn work really well. We actually create a company page specifically for our show. And anytime we talk about the show, we make sure to mention the company page. And so people can click through, see it, go to the you know, and end up going to the website and subscribing to the show from there. So getting active on LinkedIn, which I know you're doing really well already, Mark, would be a great way for you to to get more eyes and ears on your show. And then the other thing, I mean, it's it's more it's much more of a traditional approach, but it's paying for mentions on larger shows. So if you wanna go to podcasts in your industry or maybe podcasts that are a little bit outside your industry, but you know a lot of people in your industry listen to it, you can always pay those shows to to do an ad spot for your podcast on their podcast. And because you know all of those people consuming it already listen to podcasts, it's it's a really good medium for growing your audience. Those are those are a few quick things that that marketers can think about as they're trying to figure out distribution.

Mark Evans: One final question. Talk to me a little bit about SweetFish Media. What's the company's history, and and what does it do to help b to

James Carberry: b companies with podcasting? We produce podcasts for b to b brands. So we do all the guest guest outreach. We can help our customers come up with episode plans. We do all the audio engineering, the repurposing of the content into videos. We really help our customers stay consistent with their show. We found that a lot of brands that try to take this on in house just they don't have the bandwidth. They're working on a lot of different things. We can help take all of the kind of the day to day block and tackling that needs to happen for your show to stay consistent. And we can take we take that off companies. We we take that off of our customers and and onto ourselves, and and we've gotten really, really good at it. So we help launch and and produce shows for about 80 customers right now. And like I said, we're working with a lot of b to b SaaS companies. And

Mark Evans: If I had to be honest with you, I think that I've just got a twenty minute free consultation on how to create and market a podcast, so I appreciate that. Thanks for listening to another episode of Marketing Spark. If you enjoyed the conversation, please leave a review as well as subscribe via iTunes or your favorite podcast app. If you have questions, feedback, would like to suggest a guest, or you're looking for help with b two b marketing, send an email to mark@markevans.ca. Talk to you next time.