In this episode of Marketing Spark, Andrew Arocha, Drift's chief revenue officer, talks about how less (marketing) will be more amid more difficult economic conditions.
He talks about how companies will focus on revenue growth rather than brand awareness, the future of conferences (smaller and more intimate), best practices for ABM, and how companies should approach customer retention and churn.
Auto-generated transcript. Speaker names, spelling, and punctuation may be slightly off.
Mark Evans: Where is the b to b SaaS marketing landscape heading in twenty twenty three? Three. If you peered into a crystal ball, I'd suggest it would be cloudy and overcast. Given the more challenging economic conditions, the marketing landscape has shifted. Until early twenty two, marketing was about growth and customer acquisition. Today, it's about exploring new ways to attract and engage prospects and, as importantly, keep existing customers. For many b to b SaaS companies, it means the marketing mix strategically and tactically has to change. They need to take new and different approaches. And as we know, change can be hard, so it's easy to see how marketing could be a one step forward, one step backward proposition this year. On this episode of Marketing Spark, I'm talking with Andrew Orocha, chief revenue officer with Drift, which pioneered conversational marketing. Andrew joined Drift in July after nearly five years at Oracle. When I was approached to have Andrew on the podcast, I was intrigued by how he's stepping back from the fray to figure out how marketing will evolve in 2023. Welcome to Marketing Spark, Andrew.
Andrew Orocha: Thank you. It's nice to be here.
Mark Evans: So this is a loaded question, but what do you see as the biggest changes in the B2B marketing mix in 2023? What channels or approaches are gaining momentum, and what's falling out of favor?
Andrew Orocha: So so I think that, you know, the the biggest trend I'm seeing is really the in in b to b marketing is the shift to to revenue stack. And so traditional marketing stacks, right, they're very, it was just it was it was harder to measure. And, you know, the old adage of, you know, half of my marketing budget is wasted. I just don't know which half that it is that is wasted. And so, you know, there's a lot more focus on ensuring that you can actually tie, you know, the the technology to results. And so, you know, what I'm seeing out there is is kind of CMO, CRO alignment a lot tighter now. And, you know, things like signal based marketing, things like, you know, real site engagement and conversation marketing, obviously, is a big part of that. And things like ABM strategies are starting to get a lot more focus and attention because they're, you know, they're easier to measure. And so, you know, I think that's one key trend. And I think, you know, some of the things you know, I wouldn't say, you know, so much falling out of favor. It's just like, now what do we prioritize? And, you know, I think it is those you know, again, you know, looking at things that tie to results, that you can measure better or or getting a lot more attention. Not that these are falling out of favor, but the bigger projects that, you know, are taking longer. For instance, like, you know, CDPs, they had so much momentum and you know? But it's hard work. Right? It's a lot of hard work. And so I think, you know, some of those, I'm seeing those projects being put on hold, for this year while companies, you know, retrench and start to think about, like, really intelligent ways they can spend. They can do more with less and kinda spend less to get more.
Mark Evans: Yeah. It's an interesting landscape in the sense that data allows companies to instantly assess whether marketing activities are successful or not. But what about the other side of the fence? The the marketing that can't be measured, things like dark web and dark social, and as important, activities like brand awareness and thought leadership, which are more slow burn long term propositions. How do marketers balance the need to drive results and revenue in the short term but still position themselves for long term success?
Andrew Orocha: I mean, that's a great question that, you know, we're we're let's say, for Drift, for example, too, where, you know, we have a really great brand. And, you know, there's a lot of just activity and awareness of of the Drift brand. So we're starting to pivot, you know, some of our budget to more, again, results oriented kind of, you know, like ABM strategies and things like that. You know, I think that, you know, brand is absolutely still important. It's just, you know, I think for 2023, it's going to take a bit of a backseat, for a short period of time. You know, I think that the things, like you said, that are more, like, experiential and harder to measure, those will get less funding in 2023. Not that they'll go away. The labs that you still be spend on, you know, on awareness campaigns and brand campaigns. There's things that you just need to do, right, to have awareness. But, you know, I think that, you know, where we're seeing the focus, especially as we said the theme for 2023 that we're seeing is kinda do more with less. And and companies are having to make some really hard choices right now on where they can spend, right, as budgets get cut. And so, you know, that's where I see for this year, it is the focus on where can we drive the revenue, where can we tie an outcome to. And I think that those other things like awareness and, like, brand marketing are still going to get some budget, but I think that they're going to get less.
Mark Evans: To me, what's interesting is that Drift did an amazing job approaching marketing from a two pronged perspective. One is that it was very much focused on brand awareness and creating that whole conversational marketing category and really double down on content and putting the market the leaders front and center in front of conferences and things like that. And at the same time, it also was driving revenue. A lot of brands didn't have the luxury of being able to do that. They didn't build their brands over the last two to three years. What are their challenges if you don't have brand awareness? If you're not like a Drift and everyone knows who you are, how do you balance the need to make people aware that you exist, which is a huge challenge for many companies, but at the same time drive revenue, especially as you suggest budgets are shrinking and companies will have to do more with less?
Andrew Orocha: Yeah. And I guess I should have said, right, it's it's it's good for us. Right? It's it's kind of easier for me to say that because Drift has such a great brand, right, and such awareness. And, you know, there are there are, particularly in b to b, right, there's there's companies out there that just don't don't enjoy that same kind of brand recognition. And so, you know, they're gonna have to make some hard choices about, kind of what to do. The things that, you know, we're seeing are, you know, things that, you know, just a lot more scrutiny on how I can get, again, the the the more or less, but a bigger impact. Right? How can I get a bigger splash? How can I use social? And what I'm starting to see too is some of these smaller companies is just really getting very aggressive in, you know, kind of social marketing and not just from a, you know, a marketing silo perspective, but really getting the whole organization engaged in posting and doing blogs and doing you know, video marketing is incredibly, you know, explosive right now. Right? So I think that's something you're gonna continue to see b to b marketers really double down on is kind of the, you know, video marketing. But, you know, I I think there's gonna be a lot more strategic and surgical about, you know, how they go about it. And some of it's gonna be some, you know, guerrilla type tactics where, you know, everyone in the company is gonna have to be involved in, you know, promoting the the face of the brand.
Mark Evans: So what do you see as some of the more effective or successful more with less tactical approaches to marketing? Obviously, marketing budgets are among the first victims when there's any kind of slowdown. Marketing is sort of the is low hanging fruit even though it shouldn't be. But are there some things that you're seeing or that Drift is doing that epitomize this approach to marketing in 2023?
Andrew Orocha: I couldn't agree with you more, yeah, that it shouldn't be. But, yes, you know, sales and marketing tends to, you know, be the first ones, you know, to to be looked at. And the things that that that we're doing is, you know, like, if you look at that even just, you know, the the posts on on Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, we are we're we're doing what I just said, which is, like, get the whole company involved in being, you know, in being, you know, marketers, right, and in being, in the promotion kind of motion. And so, you know, you see a lot of posts. You'll see posts from me. You see posts from our executive team, but you see posts also from just, you know, the line. And so, you know, there's there's a lot of activity that you're seeing from Drift, right, out in in social channels. You know, I think that's a really good thing. The, you know, events and we, you know, we we are doing some very targeted events, right, that that's based on our ABM strategy. I think really smart, you know, ABM as well is is, you know, a major focus. And so, you know, there's still gonna be the need for events. The the larger events are you know, for us, anyways, the larger events are a little harder to justify, Yeah. But we're doing a lot of more smaller intimate events that's getting some some payback. You know? And just anything that we can do that's not a big and, of course, you know, we're still doing SEO, we're still doing display. But anything that we can do to, you know, take some of that, to to lessen some of that budget or at least not grow it and still still promote the brand is what we're looking at. And the, again, the way that we're doing that is through social, through you know, we're doing you know, sending emails. We're actually picking up phones, by the way. That's still an effective method, and we're doing a lot of that too just to get the brand out there. And with the events that we're doing that are a little smaller, more intimate, lower cost, we're also helping to promote the brand.
Mark Evans: I'm glad you mentioned conferences because for many b to b SaaS companies, they were the go to marketing and sales activities. People's well, companies spent, you know, huge amounts of money going to conferences even though many of those conferences likely didn't produce the leads and the ROI that they expected, but there was this expectation that they had to be everywhere. If the competition was there, they had to be there as well. So the question that that I have to ask you is when and if will conferences make a comeback? You know, how do you think companies should approach conferences to drive ROI? And on the flip side, how do conference organizers change the way that they operate their business models, the value propositions to companies, and how do they bring them back in the fray? Because the reality is conferences got expensive. They're expensive to attend, and they're super expensive to sponsor. And it was a great business for conference organizers. I'm not so sure it was a good business proposition for many companies who felt the need to be there. Your thoughts on that?
Andrew Orocha: Yeah. And it's it's a great point. You know, it was the whole, you know, FOMA thing, right, that drove a lot of, you know, attendance by, vendors to to, you know, these big conferences. You know, I I think they'll always be, you know, they'll always be these big conferences. I mean, CES, right, I think had you know? I mean, last year, it was it was, you know, completely down, right, to, 45,000 attendees. This year, was about a 115,000. And I but it's it's still off from 2020, which was, you know, about a 170,000 attendees. And so, you know, it's showing that, you know, there's still people willing to attend, but not at the not at the levels that that it used to be. And so I think that, you know, to what I was saying earlier, the kind of smaller, more intimate, more purpose built agendas, are we're seeing the expected attendance in those. And so we're doing with a partner of our sales law, we're doing these revenue roundtables where it's, you know, very targeted audience and, you know, very targeted content in real discussion. And so it's not just a, you know, a a pinball ping pong from one vendor's booth to another. It's a very intimate setting with with like minded individuals. And I think, you know, whether it's, you know, small intimate dinners or it's, you know, conferences that are smaller in scale but very, you know, very strategic, where attendees know they're gonna find like minded individuals, you know, those are the those are the kind of conferences that we're seeing, you know, still attendance be very, you know, very high and or at least to the expected levels. You know, as as people also start to ease their way back into their physical world, you know, that that's still a factor that we're dealing with.
Mark Evans: Walk me through this conference with SalesLoft because I think there's a lot of companies out there that want to do events. They recognize the value of events and connecting with prospects and reconnecting with with customers after many years of not even seeing people in in real person.
Andrew Orocha: Yeah.
Mark Evans: I think there's a lot of people who who'd like to see like to know the recipe or the tactical approach that you're taking to this specific conference. And we can use this as an example of the new type of event. How many people, how many sessions, how many days, you know, how much does it cost attendees? Like, obviously, it's strategic. It's focused getting the right people at the in the room and making sure that the attendees get value. They walk away, and they say that was a day well spent. That was worth flying into a particular city. It was worth the expense because I got a lot of insight. I met a lot of great people. Peel back the onion in terms of how this event is happening and and how it's organized.
Andrew Orocha: Yeah. Specifically, you know, the the kind of revenue roundtable dinners I was speaking of, that's kind of us bringing the event to them. And they're very intimate. We're talking, you know, 20 attendees at a high level. And, you know, we're doing things so not just, you know, like a celebrity chef, but we did one in Chicago where it was actually we went to the chef's the celebrity chef's house. And, you know, the participants got to walk around the house and explore, and it was it was wonderful. It was very well received. And it also, you know, provided the the ability then to have a conversation, right, which is what Drift is all about and, you know, actually share a conversation across a table and and keep that theme of that conversation going. Right? Where it's that's very different from a conference, right, where it's very much, you know, you go, you sit, you learn in a session, then you come out and you go to somebody's booth, and they'll tell you a few things, you go to another person's booth. And so, you know, having, like, you know, an organized conversation that, you know, starts and ends is is very valuable. From a from a conference perspective, you know, I I think, you know, back to your original question too about, like, you know, where where kind of event, you know, organizers should be thinking about in in the ROI equation of it, you know, I I think it's that eye part is really important. Right? The the investment. And, you know, as you said, you know, in the at the start of this, topic is, you know, it it it's hard well, it's hard to measure for first of all. Right? And, again, I think 2023 is gonna be the year of, like, measurement. Right? Can we measure results? Can we actually you know, is it was it worth the investment? And so that, you know, that investment part of it is critical. So finding things, again, like, you know, we did, which was a little bit you know, it's not, you know, of the norm. There's not a lot of times I've been to a celebrity chef's house. But, you know, those kind of things that can be a draw and be a lower cost of entry are are you know, is where we're doubling down on. And then as far as, like, actual conferences, you know, we're attending things like, you know, the 6¢ conference, the sales off conference because it's all tied to that revenue stack. Right? And when you think about the, you know, the revenue stack, it's much more about, okay, signals, intent, how I can use that then to, you know, feed personalization on on-site, including our conversations. Right? And so when I pick them up on-site, I'm ready to have a conversation with this person because what I know about them and then hand that off to, like, you know, a a sales off, for instance, for for, you know, for ABM and, you know, and and retention. And so, you know, the those very purposeful, like, revenue stack kind of, conferences we're finding to be very valuable. Because, again, it's back to the like, these people are very like minded about their their revenue systems.
Mark Evans: So the the event that you're doing with SalesLoft, is that the dinner in Chicago, or are you doing a separate conference, smaller salon like conference with with SalesLoft?
Andrew Orocha: So we've done we've done their conferences. We've done six conferences, and we'll we'll do those again. The dinner series, you know, where we're dubbing the revenue roundtables, those are city by city. So we've done them in New York. We've done them in Raleigh. We've done them in San Francisco. We've done them in Chicago, and we're gonna continue to do them because they're producing results. But, you know, they're compared to the big conferences, compared to sending people to CES, it's a lot lower cost and a lot more intimate.
Mark Evans: You mentioned earlier in the conversation the focus on ABM, and a lot of b to b SaaS companies are leaning into ABM because it's more focused, more structured. You can measure much of the activity of ABM in this whole shotgun approach to marketing seems to be disappearing as budgets shrink, and companies are focusing on the people who matter to them. Can you provide some context in terms of how Drift is approaching ABM these days or maybe even how b to b SaaS companies should approach ABM best practices, some of the things that have worked at Drift without revealing trade secrets, because a lot of companies are interested in embracing ABM, but it's it's a multifaceted kind of activity. And maybe giving some guidance on the fundamentals would be very helpful to a lot of companies.
Andrew Orocha: No. I I I appreciate you saying it's multifaceted because it truly is. And, you know, it's it's been air it's it's really been everything. Right? And so I think, you know, then then there's kind of getting it right, which I'm seeing a lot more, particularly in b two b, a lot more organizations start to get it right. You know? Because, you know, I've been involved in some ABM strategies that were no more than, you know, hey. We're gonna do, you know, field dinners and follow it up with some email campaign. And you know? But to really be effective in ABM, you know, you need first of all, you know, and this isn't giving any trade secrets is you need tight alignment with sales, marketing, customer success, right, product. Like, you need really tight alignment across the organization. I think that's where it starts. Right? Coming up with a strategy and then taking the data that, you know, each one of these groups is is seen. Right? You know, what what customer success has seen, what sales has seen, what marketing's seen, organizing that data, and then using that to make, you know, make up your strategy. And, you know, then it's about, okay. What campaigns are we gonna run? What kind of, you know, plays are we gonna run? Who's responsible? Having some kind of RACI model. And then really where I see, ABM fall down often is the execution part of it. Right? And really holding, you know, every stakeholder accountable to the outcomes of that ABM play, whatever it may be. You know, I I I think that's key.
Mark Evans: The way that I approach ABM with clients, at least one of the fundamentals that I look at is is this whole give, give, give, ask philosophy to ABM is that if you're trying to engage prospects, trying to engender brand affinity and get them to trust you and see you as a a value added resource. So they get to the point where I wanna engage with this company. I wanna have a conversation with them because they seem like they're empathetic to my needs and my interest and my success. A lot of that is around content in terms of delivering resources that are valuable and insightful. Do you see that as sort of a fundamental pillar for ABM to give a lot, and then you can make the ask. How about coming for a conversation? Do you wanna see a demo? Do you want a product tour? Is is that seen as one of the important things that companies should be should embrace?
Andrew Orocha: Absolutely. You know, because it is. I mean, that that is a key pillar of an ABM strategy, right, is, you know, to to just surround an account. Right? And first of all, again, back to the data part, it starts with making sure, you know, that that core target accounts that you wanna go after, your core ICP is you you really need to vet that out. Right? Because you're gonna be spending a lot of money and time and resources, right, to target these accounts and market to them. So you better make sure you have that right in terms of the targeted account list. And then it yes. It's it's a it's just it's a it's a longer play. Right? And and it's about, you know, the give give, as you said, right, and then the ask, and it's about just, you know, awareness and surrounding them with thought leadership as well as a big pillar of that. Right? Just sharing with them, you know, information that could be, you know, valuable to them, sharing with them, networking with them, right, inviting them to things where they can, you know, they can network with other like minded individuals. And then, you know, from a Drift perspective, right, the conversation we think really plays well into that ABM strategy because, you know, it's a conversation. It's not a hard sell.
Mark Evans: One of the things I wanted to ask you is as much as there's a focus on driving revenue and attracting and engaging new prospects and ideally closing them, a lot of companies need to focus on keeping their existing customers in the fold, making sure that they're engaged and that they continue to see value from the platform and that they don't start to explore other options. It's easy, especially if you're a lower priced product, Customers get fickle. They get bored. They get tired of your product, and they start to wander, especially as they get approached through programs like ABM. What do you see as some of the keys to customer retention and making sure that churn doesn't become a problem, particularly in an age when, as you say, companies are spending more and they have to spread their marketing and sales spend across more channels, or maybe they don't. Maybe they focus on specific channels. How how is Drift approaching retention? Any new wrinkles for 2023? First of all,
Andrew Orocha: I think 2023 is, you know, the year of retention. It's it's absolutely top of mind, particularly in in b to b, you know, SaaS. Right? It's it's absolutely top of mind. And, you know, I think that and we are. We're seeing a lot more, of our customers and prospects come to us with with the ask of, like, what's what's the strategies for retention? What's the strategies for cross sell, upsell, and expansion? And we're providing that. In fact, we well, we posted a a blog out there on kind of the the do more with less. I think, you know, it starts to starts to approach, like, some of that some of that topic. But I think that what we're seeing is, you know, all the things so, you know, all the focus used to be on acquisition, right, and and some on retention, and we're seeing that shift now. And we're seeing some of those strategies and tactics that worked for acquisition. Even like ABM, we're starting to point towards retention, towards customers, right, because they're gonna be key in in 2023. And so, you know, taking all those motions like ABM, like like signal based marketing, right, and and, you know, what our customers are doing on-site, and are they looking for information? Okay. Let's meet them right there with a conversation and and assist them. And whether it be I can then and with the Drift platform, I can send you either back to sales because I'm looking for a new feature, or I can send you to service because you need help with something. And so just giving that golden glove treatment to the customer base is critical. And then the other thing that they're doing is they're taking all of those you know, all the strategies and tactics they would do on the acquisition side, and I'm seeing them start to mingle and marry that with your actual customer health scores, your customer support data so you can really start having a strategy about really getting all the signals in the customer three sixty, right, that that is critical for this year. So we're seeing a lot more focus on retention and also on cross sell, upsell, and expansion Because as you know, when economic times are such as they are, getting revenue from your customer base, it converts higher than net new win rates. And so we're seeing a lot more attention being placed on, okay. You know, we need to retain our customers, but we also need to cross sell, upsell, and expand in our customers, not just for the the revenue, obviously, but also for the stickiness. And, you know, as customers start to adopt more of your technology or more of your product, there's a likelihood that they're gonna stick around.
Mark Evans: That has to be a nuanced conversation. If you're a customer and you feel like you're paying a fair price or a premium price for the product and during tough economic times, the vendor turns to you and says, hey. Do you wanna buy some more of our stuff? You wanna embrace the platform more? Can we sell you more seats? The reaction may be, especially if they're under limited budgets or or their spending is being restrained. Listen. And I'm a customer already. How much do you need from me? Any suggestions on terms of how to make that a gentler, more user friendly conversation as opposed to the customer feeling like, you know, they can't get growth from new customers, so they're squeezing me right now.
Andrew Orocha: Yeah. I think where where you're where you're not seeing, Ryan, you're seeing because every vendor wants to do this, but I think you're seeing a lot of them, you know, kinda back off is that, hey. You know, I'm going to just give you an uplift at time of renewal or, you know, I'm going to raise my prices just, you know, because, you know, I'm having a hard time myself, and I need more money from you. That's not going over well. What I'm seeing, the the the appetite to to spend is when you can bring more value to them. So either through innovation, because it's something that you that the platform or that just wasn't there before that now I can offer you, or what I'm seeing a big a big plan is consolidation. So for instance, like, for Drift, we can bring to our customer base that some of these customers didn't even realize that they could do this. But, you know, we have video capabilities. We have calendaring capabilities. So that consolidation, is really starting to get a lot of momentum in terms of, like, I'm bringing like, I can actually lower your overall spend and give you more capability.
Mark Evans: I would be remiss if I didn't ask you about conversational marketing given Drift is one of the leading players in the marketplace. Chatbots are everywhere these days. Everybody seems to have one. There's there's many, many, many players and new players emerging all the time. From the Drift perspective, how is the conversational marketing landscape changing? What are some of the things that we will be able to see in terms of, wow. I didn't that's totally different from what happened in 2022. Overall, what's the what's the demand out there for conversational marketing?
Andrew Orocha: It's been really good. The demand is great, particularly going into, you know, times like this where, you know, you need a you need a value proposition that you can tie to results. Our our statistics are through the roof when it comes to qualified leads, win rates, pipeline generation, conversion. There's just, you know, story after story on our site that you could check out that, you know, where actual customers, you know, give testimonials. Where conversational marketing is kind of maturing to is, you know, this platform play. Because as you said, right, there's all these you know, a lot of other, say, technologies have, like, hung chat on this. Like, you know, hey. Let let's put chat on top of this service module. Right? Or let's put chat on top of this map or whatever it may be. But the ability to have conversation as a platform is beyond chat too because it's all the other things that we're doing, like intelligence of what visitors are doing on your site and where they're pathing and then how I take that and, like, inform my chat. So there's these things outside of just I'm having a a quick chat conversation. They're value valuable. And then the platform, what we're seeing is back to an experience kind of play is customers want something that can go across marketing, sales, and service. And so that's why we have, you know, the various modules because, you know, one CMO that I had the pleasure of interviewing told me, like, he made a a hard decision to take out all the other chat solutions from his stack because he just wanted one common experience for his for his site visitors. Right? So if I come on, you know, and I'm not a customer, well, then our chatbots, you know, helping convert that. It's it's having a conversation. It's AI based, so it's having a conversation even when the salesperson's not there, which is another big kind of improvement, I think, in in the area of focus is AI, but I'll get back to that. So then, you know, from sales, you know, I can convert. And then as a customer, when I come back in for a service issue, it's that same chat experience. So we're saying, you know, we're seeing the need for a a conversation platform, not just, you know, a conversation sale or a conversation service. And then, you know, the other trend that we're seeing is the kinda AI based because, again, back to the whole do more with less, you know, there's there's you know, people aren't hiring more salespeople typically right now. Companies are. In fact, some of them are going the other way. And so and and even the Salesforce that you have, they they go home at the end of the day, and, you know, they they go to bed. And so having something that can be near human like that can keep the sale moving along, keep the pipeline progressing while a human being isn't there is critical, and we're seeing a a big uptake in in AI is is every industry is.
Mark Evans: The other area that I wanted to ask you about conversational marketing is personalization. The idea that the experience is is relevant and specifically designed for you, and it and it evolves as your interests and requests change. Can you talk a little bit about how AI is helping that progression? We're hearing a lot these days, obviously, with ChatGPT and the whole power of AI and and its impact on the ability to personalize the experience when you're involved in the chat environment, the conversational marketing environment.
Andrew Orocha: Yeah. And ChatGPT, that's, yeah, that's probably a whole other session for another time. So AI is a it relates to, you know, how we've deployed it. It's, you know, it's definitely it's taking everything it knows about you. And and that's there are some table stakes things there, right, where it's looking at all again, we're able to understand outside of the chat conversation with DriftIntel what people are doing on your site. So we're able to take that. We're able to take what we know we're able to take and then meet them. Right? I mean, our our common theme has always been, you know, meet buyers, like, on their terms, where they wanna be in the right channel with the right conversation, using AI to help facilitate that. So taking all the signal data, all the intent data, take everything that we know about them, and then using that to personalize an experience with them when they when they come to site and engage with Drift, that's key. And then having AI's ability to know the site contents, the product catalog, things like that, right, so that I can surface up the right conversation. It it's not going to be an exact human conversation, but it's near human in which is, like I said, in the do more with less, it's it's proven to be very, very critical for, you know, our customers.
Mark Evans: We've covered a lot of ground in half an hour. Final question is where can people learn more about you and obviously Drift?
Andrew Orocha: Drift.com is a great place. There's a lot of content out there. One of the other things that we're just launched on-site is you can go there and find solutions by industry too. We're we're what I think for this year in 2023, we're seeing companies start to look at taking their existing solution and getting into other verticals. And so that's something that that Drift is doing. So you can see solutions for financial services, for manufacturing, for professional services, and, obviously, for tech SaaS, which is where we evolved. So they can browse the site. They can reach out to me at aaroach@drift.com at any time, and I'm happy to, get on a call, Zoom, or, have a conversation.
Mark Evans: Well, thanks, Andrew, for the, great insight, and thanks to everyone for listening to another episode of marketing spark. If you enjoyed the conversation, leave a review, subscribe via Apple Podcast, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app, and share via social media. To learn more about how I work with b to b SaaS companies as a fractional CMO, strategic adviser, and positioning and messaging consultant, email mark@markevans.ca, or connect with me on LinkedIn. I'll talk to you
Andrew Orocha: soon.