Show notes
Words are powerful. They make as much an impact as video, photos, and audio.
But words and writing are often under-appreciated, particularly by people who aren't writers or marketers.
In this episode of the Marketing Spark podcast, Sam Howard talks about why words matter and best practices for using them to drive Website conversions.
Sam embraces a research-driven copywriting approach involving interviews with employees, customers and a competitive audit.
We talk about:
- Whether copy or design should come first when developing a Website
- Best practices for copy and structure of homepages
- Three killers tips for Website conversions
- How to create better CTAs, demo pages, and About pages.
From the conversation
Why copy matters and how clients come to see it
Mark opens by asking whether copy gets the respect it deserves in a world of video, photos and GIFs. Sam Howard, a conversion copywriter and strategist for B2B SaaS startups, says it does not, while admitting to living in a conversion copy bubble. Sam's reasoning is that a prospect cannot be converted with a GIF alone, because there has to be copy around it. Prospects who come to Sam already know they need help with copy.
Once teams start measuring their email copy, website copy and ad funnels, Sam says there is little persuading left to do.
The moment that lands hardest with clients is the shift from brainstorming copy internally to voice-of-customer copy. The new copy explains the product in the words that existing customers and prospects use. Clients often react by saying it is exactly what they wanted to say and they just did not know how.
"the moment startup folks realize that something is broken, they want to fix it. And in many cases, they realize that what's broken is copy."
The research-driven approach to writing copy
Sam's process is based on what Copyhackers teach. Sam describes themself as slightly research-obsessed and says the research sometimes does not need to be as heavy as what Sam tends to do. The aim is to cut down the assumptions that end up in the copy.
The first step is documenting assumptions and the things that do not work. For an existing site, Sam starts with Google Analytics and Hotjar, assuming conversions are set up, which is not always the case. A team may believe everyone reads the sales page or that many people reach the demo sign-up form, and the data can show otherwise. It can also surface UX issues, which Sam calls quick wins to fix right away.
Next, Sam talks to the product, sales and customer success teams. Each has its own biases, which gives Sam a map of what teams believe separately and what everyone believes about customers. Sam finds the overlap between sales and customer success the most interesting. Sales talks to prospects and customer success supports the people who convert, so very different answers about the best customers are a red flag that something is broken along the way. Customer success can also say who churns and who stays, which sales teams generally do not follow up on.
"the whole point of the research is to minimize the amount of assumptions we're making in the copy."
Competitor review and customer interviews
Before speaking with customers, Sam wants to understand the competition, since Sam cannot think of a product that has no direct or indirect competitors. The audit stays at a high level. Sam does not dig into blog posts or e-books unless the work is aimed at that stage of awareness, and instead looks at each competitor's homepage hero section to see what it says and how different it is.
The finding is often repetition. When everyone uses the same words for the product, the problem and the solution, Sam puts those words on a please-do-not-use-that list.
Sam prefers customer interviews over other ways of validating assumptions because they allow follow-up questions. Customers are humans, and humans are not always direct or truthful. Sometimes they just need more prompting to get to the answer.
"I would say at least seven times out of ten, websites can be shockingly similar."
Conversion best practices instead of hacks
Asked for conversion hacks, Sam has strong feelings and prefers to talk about best practices. Sam notes that people asking for best practices are often really after hacks, such as a red button instead of a green one, or relying on fear of missing out. These can work, but out of context they can backfire. Best practices will not backfire, though they are not guaranteed to work, because results depend on the audience and the product.
Sam offers three, mostly tied to user experience. First, do not force visitors to do things without a very good reason. Demo forms with too many fields are a problem, and marking some fields as not required makes visitors feel less pushed.
Second, be mindful of layout. Avoid unscannable blocks of text and use visuals that contribute to the page instead of just taking up space. Third, avoid false bottoms, where a section looks like the start of the footer. A CTA placed below it goes unseen because visitors assume the page is finished.
Website copy mistakes, homepage structure and design order
Sam names fluffy copy as the worst mistake, especially hero sections with fancy but meaningless two-word headlines. Larger companies can get away with it because most people already know what Mailchimp does. Startups copy those headlines from hero section swipe files, and Sam says the bounce rate goes up immediately.
Keeping copy aligned with the business is hard because the business changes. The goals may stay the same while the way of reaching them shifts, and there is often a gap of several months between a strategy change and the realization that the website no longer works.
On homepages, Sam says they are hard to get right when a company does not know enough about its ICPs and their stage of awareness. Frameworks can guide the layout, but the content still has to be worked out, so Sam prefers starting with research. For multiple use cases, Sam looks for the one thing they all need, shows the product is relevant to it, then offers choices through specific use case pages. The homepage works like a map, and the prospect decides where to go next.
Sam does not recommend doing design first. Sam builds wireframes showing the visual hierarchy (H1, H2, H3), buttons and image placeholders, so the page looks like a page without looking finished. The design team then adds the visuals and does not have to decode Word documents.
"So the only thing that I can think of is being very deliberate about building in feedback loops and staying on top of website updates."
CTAs, demo forms and About pages
In a short rapid fire round, Sam says CTAs should not be questions. Sam does not think a CTA should ever be a demo, and says ready to find out more is not a CTA headline Sam would recommend. Curiosity can suit top of funnel content, but near a conversion Sam wants to be snappy and get out of the prospect's way.
Sam says what surrounds the button matters more than the button text. That means addressing objections, explaining what happens next and saying when the prospect will hear back, including whether they can schedule a demo or must wait for an email.
Demo forms are often shaped by what the sales team needs to know. If the number of fields truly cannot be reduced, Sam says making the form more fun could work, with quizzes as an example, especially if some fields are hidden and broken up. Sam still suggests qualifying prospects in other ways that avoid lengthy required fields.
Sam agrees that About pages are an overlooked opportunity. The key is connecting the company's story to what prospects care about.