Pickleball Is One of the Best Brand Positioning Examples

Transcript lightly edited for spelling and punctuation. The conversation is unabridged.

Mark Evans: You may have not heard of pickleball, but it's the fastest growing sport in the U.S. Everyone is playing it. A burgeoning professional pickleball league has attracted owners like Gary Vaynerchuk and NBA superstar Kevin Durant. It wasn't that long ago that pickleball was a sport mostly played by senior citizens. Created in 1965, pickleball requires good hand-eye coordination, but not necessarily on-court speed, although I guess my guest will argue against that. Perfect for people who wanted to stay active and be social. And things began to change in 2019 when USA Pickleball hired Laura Gainor, a marketing consultant. A lot has happened over the past four years, so I'm excited to have Laura on Marketing Spark to talk about her work in transforming pickleball and USA Pickleball. Welcome to Marketing Spark.

Laura Gainor: Hi, Mark. Thanks for having me.

Mark Evans: It's great to have you here, and I've been including the pickleball example in my positioning workshop. It's awesome to be able to have the source of the story on my podcast. For the uninitiated, what is the definition of pickleball? How is it different from racquetball or tennis? And I guess the $64,000 question is, why has it become America's fastest growing sport?

Laura Gainor: Yeah. I mean, just like you said, I mean, it's fun, social, and definitely sparks a lot of conversations, especially when you hear the word pickleball because it's really for everybody, all generations, all ages, skill levels. So we can usually just find a court nearby in your community while you're traveling, bring your paddle, and you can usually learn the rules pretty quickly. I say, it's like twenty minutes. I myself learned right after I got introduced to USA Pickleball as my first client, and we took a few friends out that night and went out and played. Just four of us, and, yeah, we left that night really loving the game—fun, social. It's very similar to badminton, tennis. The court size is one-fourth the size of a tennis court, so you can also pop up a pickleball court anywhere. A lot of people are putting them in their driveways and really can go to pickleball.org, learn the rules, very simple, and play very quickly with your whole family, all ages.

Mark Evans: Well, tell me about your background and when you started your Vossburg Gainor Pickleball Marketing Agency. I'm fascinated by the journey because for years, pickleball was so low profile. It was essentially a niche sport, perhaps played by people in Florida and retirement communities. It wasn't on the radar at all. Talk through that journey from having your own agency to your connection with pickleball.

Laura Gainor: So I've always worked in marketing for the last fifteen-plus years. I've done various marketing roles. I used to run a nonprofit advertising agency. I ran the Milwaukee Advertising Club, which is really involved with planning social events, community, which tied in perfectly with my sports marketing background as well once I got introduced to USA Pickleball. So as I said, I was working for a nonprofit ad agency out of Milwaukee, and I was doing some incredible work, but then we moved to Chicago in the midst of that as well. So I was kind of going back and forth between Milwaukee and Chicago, and I was like, what am I doing? I can launch my own marketing agency, grab a couple of clients. And well, that first client I got introduced to actually through my husband, was USA Pickleball. George Bauer and Fein had just gotten hired by USA Pickleball to lead their marketing efforts, and they were really wanting to bring somebody in to help with their rebrand when they moved from USAPA into USA Pickleball. So as I mentioned, I utilized my Milwaukee advertising connections and actually brought in one of my ad agency partners, and they, which we'll talk through. They really helped the USA Pickleball rebrand with a new logo, website, and obviously we can touch on, like, all the research and everything that went into it. But overall, once I got introduced to pickleball, I went and learned how to play, so I could talk about it on social media and help with their marketing. And then for me, it's really tied together my career perfectly the last fifteen years, from sports, fun, social, bringing that community together. So I definitely feel very fortunate to get to work in pickleball because I live and work in it every single day.

Mark Evans: What was your initial impression of USA Pickleball, the brand, the sport itself? Did you see it as an exciting marketing positioning opportunity? Were you a little daunted by the amount of work that probably had to be done to refresh the brand? What were your initial impressions of Pickleball and the

Laura Gainor: brand itself? Overall, it was a lot of fun. Definitely, when they brought me in, it was USAPA, USAPA.org. Their website and their brand was kind of just outdated. And, really, I mean, the sport, as we know, was just fun, social, so the brand should represent that. So I had connected with Bader Rutter, an ad agency in Milwaukee, and we had gone out there and done focus groups. They really listened to the players too, and that's important with this sport. And with USA Pickleball and the governing body, they wanted to make sure that whenever they made the branding, the look and feel that they got input from their ambassadors all around the country, certified, you know, coaches, and really the recreational players. And we did a lot of focus groups, finding, like, what are those keywords? How do you explain pickleball to make sure that was expressed with the new USA Pickleball website, brands, promotional materials, their logo as well.

Mark Evans: But as a marketer, you're looking at a brand that is very, very niche, very, very low profile. What were their motivations? What were they looking for someone like you to do, and how did you start the journey with them? What were some of the steps that you had to go through to make sure that you understood the sport, you understood the target audiences, and you understood where they wanted to take the brand? Because one of the big challenges for marketers is asking a brand, what does success look like? At the end of the day, if I do my job properly, what does that look like? How did you get a sense of the engagement and how much they wanted you to do, and how much latitude you had to reinvent the brand?

Laura Gainor: So we did those focus groups where we made the new website, logo, we listened to the community, what are those keywords, what is our target audience. So really that persona, I think, overall, has shifted so much even in the last three years since we did that first initial report because the first persona was, you know, probably in their fifties, sixties person that just kind of loves to play, as you said, like, in the retirement community. So now when I got brought on, it's like, hey. We need to show how fun and social the sport is. Like, break through that stigma that it's a senior citizen sport, that it's not young to be athletic. And, I mean, all ages, skill levels can play the sport, but really just showcasing how fun, social it is. So at the time, early 2019, that was pre-pandemic when they were still hosting mostly, it was all kind of tournaments all across the country. APP Tour was leading the way with the pro tour. People don't really know who the pros are yet, but really just introducing that recreational and social side of the sport, which is why USA Pickleball, their main mission as the governing body, is to get more and more people playing the sport. What equipment do you need? What are the rules? And then, of course, breaking into the pandemic. Once pandemic hit in March, I was going out and playing every Friday night in our social community and just really diving into the sport. It's important when you're marketing for someone that you're understanding the sport yourself, you're feeling and experiencing it every day. So it really helped to kind of get out and play, and that's when that voice kind of came out through their marketing and kind of helping guide them. Like, hey, this is fun and social. We need to get people playing in their driveways, playing as a social activity, having a date night, going to play pickleball on a Friday night instead of, you know, out drinking. But, yeah, so when we transitioned, once the pandemic hit, it actually helped the sport exponentially grow because people were looking for ways to safely stay social. They're putting pickleball courts in their driveway, which we'll kind of talk through as well. And then once the media kind of picked up on pickleball that year, I guess, from 2020 to 2021, it really exponentially boomed when I was helping with their earned media efforts and getting a lot of media and news outlets talking about the sport. But what

Mark Evans: was the initial mandate? Because, obviously, they wanted to grow the sport, but what were they looking for out of the gate? Did they want a better website? Did they want better marketing? I mean, the sport has exploded, and, obviously, the profile has exploded. But I can imagine that they were trying to take baby steps before they, and maybe they didn't even anticipate that the sport would explode like it has. What was their initial 'if you do your job right, this is gonna happen'?

Laura Gainor: Yes. I mean, they were starting to really grow their team. I mean, previously, USA Pickleball, they didn't have a CEO until two years ago when Stu Upson came in as the first CEO. Everything else, it was all board-run. USA Pickleball is a nonprofit. So things were just getting kind of outdated. They didn't really have a full marketing team. This is the first time they had a marketing team as well. So it's kind of starting fresh and new as far as putting the sport out there into the public, getting a new website, getting people interested in how to play, what are the rules. So with that website, Bader Rutter, they were tasked with kind of really reinventing because they just had kind of a basic website at the time. So looking at, like, okay, what do we wanna put on that website? We need to make sure because the highest search term is 'what is pickleball?' That's the main reason why people were going to us at pickleball.org. So making sure on the website we had instructional videos, how to play, what are the rules, what is all that content that we're sharing, doing photoshoots to make sure that we're all ages and demographics of the sport, and then, helping people find out information about the tournaments. So USA Pickleball, they're the governing body. When you sanction tournaments, you can play in tournaments all across the country. So telling them, what are those benefits of becoming a member? Why should you become a member of USA Pickleball? Here's tournaments where you can play all around the country. And then, of course, with their new partner connections as they were bringing in all these brands and sponsors that really wanted to jump in and be a part of the sport.

Mark Evans: There are probably two paths you could have taken once you got the brand refreshed. One would have been to expand the existing footprint to cement its status as the game played by senior citizens. And given the demographics, given the overall demographic trends, there's a huge audience of baby boomers who are still looking to be active. Mhmm. A lot of them, racquetball players and squash and tennis, and you could have easily gone to town simply expanding the footprint among that demographic. But it looks as though you had two forks here, two paths that you wanted to take, I don't even know if it was the original mandate. One was to expand the existing footprint, make it even more popular, and make it sexier. And the other one was to attract a younger audience. And I look at USA Pickleball's magazine, and there's young, attractive people playing the sport now. And from what I understand is that you've got red-hot tennis players who are migrating to play pickleball. Was that the original mandate? Is that we really wanna expand the footprint from the young demographic to the existing demographic, or that just happened along the way?

Laura Gainor: I think it's just happened. I mean, initially, it was kind of funny when I started working in pickleball. People were kind of laughing. Like, 'oh, my grandpa plays,' you know? Like, 'oh, you know, that's just something fun,' like, if they don't wanna take it seriously. But now, of course, fast forward a little over three years, and now people are reaching out to me constantly. Like, 'hey, how do I play?' 'What do I get started? Where do I play?' And now it's being the fastest growing sport. There's only 9,000,000 players across the country, and majority of those are the casual recreational players. As you said, I mean, the age is skewed younger where I think the average age is in their thirties, forties now, whereas before it was fifties, sixties. But now more and more people, as we kind of talked about, they're wanting to know where can they play? And I partnered with the Pick n Play app, with my brands, where when you're traveling, you can actually pull up the Pick n Play app and look and say, 'hey, here's the courts in the community near you where you're traveling, or here's resorts as to where you can kind of play or play travel destinations.' And the baby boomers are that huge audience, and now they want to travel. They have disposable income, and they wanna find out where are the most unique places that we can play. I'm seeing that they're going to this destination route, which is why, I suppose we'll talk on, is why I started the Pickleball in the Sun brand as a passion project because not only is it for a sport for tournaments and casual rec players, but this destination travel and more and more resorts are adding pickleball courts to get people to choose them for the next destination.

Mark Evans: As an ex-journalist, I understand I can appreciate how difficult and challenging it can be to get media coverage. But it's like the one thing that really fascinates me about pickleball is it's everywhere. Good Morning America, The Today Show, The New York Times, CNBC. It's like the media can't give it enough coverage. There's so many angles that they're excited about. Can you walk me through those initial days when you've refreshed the website, the logo, you've really got a sense of your target audiences and how you wanna talk to them? What was your initial strategic plan when it went to, 'okay, now that we've got the base in place, we wanna get some media. We wanna get the story out.' Did you hire a PR agency? Did you simply reach out to reporters that you thought would be interested in the story? And what was the angle that you were pitching initially to position it as the legitimate news story?

Laura Gainor: Yeah. So, you know, Vossburg Gainor was, USA Pickleball as a client of Vossburg Gainor, I was actually doing all of the above that you just mentioned. So I came in, and I really grabbed them in my lap. I've always just been eager to, like, take on as many tasks as I want, kind of volunteer, get opportunities, and have a lot of fun with them. And as I grew my credibility within USA Pickleball, with them being the national governing body, we had this huge opportunity where media, they were reaching out to us. I didn't have to do barely any outreach. They were kind of like, and with that refresh with the website, it helped to make it clear, like, hey. Here's how you contact USA Pickleball. Here's, you know, the media information as far as the number of players. Here's all that information was quick access for the media representatives, and then they would reach out to us. I didn't have to do much outreach. So Good Morning America had reached out, and then kind of with my creative background, I wanted to make sure that those stories were shared in a fun and energetic way. So instead of just talking about it being the best practice for, like, you know, showcase these kids playing. Let's go showcase, like, how much fun you can have at a resort. Yes. So as you said, Good Morning America did a story. They reached out. We brought them to our local courts here in Nocatee, and we actually had people of all ages coming out to play and talk about why they love the sport, why it's so much fun. Good Morning America had a good time with that up in New York as well doing a live feed. And then NBC Nightly News had reached out. They wanted to showcase for kids, like, why kids are enjoying the sport from their own voice. But, yeah, so from the media's perspective, they all wanted that keyword on their website because they knew it was driving traffic. People were writing into the scripts of their shows because they knew that as soon as people would share kind of a screenshot or a video clip from a show that they were talking about pickleball would get their community excited. So really what social media has really boosted websites. People wanted that pickleball keyword because they knew it would get people excited to share a link to their website. But yes. Overall, I mean, it was a huge media boom, our last two years talking about the fastest growing sport. And now into this year, the media has really wanted to talk about travel destinations. All the celebrities, obviously, that are investing into Major League Pickleball is helping us really tremendously grow the sport. How LeBron James, like, as soon as he hit the media that he bought a Major League Pickleball team, that people they started really paying attention. And these are icons that people idolize, and they wanted to be doing the same. And you kind of feel close to them in a community sense as well. Like, 'oh, I can go somewhere and play pickleball with LeBron James or Drew Brees.' You see him out playing pickleball with so many people. So it's just it's just amazing how really the community, the sport's for everybody. So you do feel kind of close connections to these celebrities as they help to grow the sport.

Mark Evans: Yeah. Speaking of celebrities in the B2B marketing world, Gary Vaynerchuk is this marketing guru. And for years, Vaynerchuk dreamed of buying the New York Jets of the National Football League. That was his dream. He would show up at events where he was speaking wearing a New York Jets jersey. And I think the price tag for the Washington Commanders, which is now on sale, is about $5,000,000,000. So I think the New York Jets may have gotten out of Gary Vaynerchuk's price range, but the consolation prize or maybe it's not a consolation prize, maybe it's the real prize is that he bought a Major League Pickleball franchise, which Mhmm. I guess, talks to the fact that this is a red-hot property. People wanna be involved. Are you surprised by the number of athletes that are jumping on the bandwagon?

Laura Gainor: Yeah. I mean, really, like you said, the sport started in 1965, but right now, it's at its infancy of growth. People are wanting in at the beginning where it's not as expensive enough to own a Major League Pickleball team. So, yeah, Gary Vee was incredibly excited to get in and buy a pickleball team. Major League Pickleball is actually going to be here in the area in Daytona just a little over an hour from my house next weekend when they're at Picktona, March 25th weekend. And it's just incredibly exciting to see that team aspect to have all these celebrities rallying behind these teams. And people, I think, at this beginning stage aren't sure kind of where it's going to go with as far as their investment opportunity, but they're all jumping in. They're helping to kind of shape, like, what these teams look like for each event. And then more and more brands, of course, are wanting to come in to be a part of it. Right now, everyone's trying to figure out, like, hey. How can I make money on the sport? How can we make money off of pickleball? So there's different leagues starting all over the place. And so it just got confusing, so people started reaching out to me because I knew on LinkedIn that I'd been this credible pickleball marketing expert. So once they start seeing Gary Vee, LeBron investing in Major League Pickleball, they're reaching out to me like, 'hey, what does this mean?' 'How should our brands get involved?' So again, it's still at the infancy of growth where we're all going to kind of see, like, where are all those opportunities. Is it events, sponsoring events? Is it just general tourism where you're creating your own events at these unique destinations? Yeah. Right now, it's kind of wide open as to where the sport can go, and I'm honored to kind of be one of those resources that got in at the very beginning, working directly with USA Pickleball, building my credibility, and then now being able to utilize my expertise and knowledge to help other brands get in the game.

Mark Evans: During COVID, one of the most interesting things was the emergence of niche activities in sports. I think of Spikeball, for example, which I didn't even know where it came from, but all of a sudden, young people were playing it in parks. And I can imagine somewhere, someplace, someone has started a Spikeball league and championship. And what would be your advice to marketers who are looking to build a brand, a niche sport or activity into a bigger brand? Any words of advice for these people?

Laura Gainor: Yeah. So Chris Rhoter, he's the founder of Spikeball. He's another great case study, as far as being a fun, social sport, and as you said, he did a great job. There's actually a pro Spikeball.

Mark Evans: For real?

Laura Gainor: Yes. Because actually, there's a pro Spikeball player that now has left Spikeball, and it's called RoundNet. Spikeball is the brand, but Preston Bies has come from being I did a video on him where we did pro versus pro where Ben Johns taught Preston how to play pickleball, and then Preston taught Ben Johns how to play Spikeball. But they're all both fun, social sports where he brings Spikeball out to the beach. Pickleball, you can pop it up in a driveway. Right when the pandemic hit, USA Pickleball sold out of their portable pickleball nets because everyone was putting them up in the driveway, they wanted just to have any reason to get outside. And now this has kind of shifted into this. Like, now people love this sport because you can bring a paddle, go to the courts, socialize. We met most of our friends here in the community that we moved to because of pickleball, because you just know when you're going as one single person up to the courts, you can rotate and play. It's fun, social. So that's kind of why this sport has boomed so much. This is just you're building your community, and people now really thrive and love being social since we were shut down for so long.

Mark Evans: So as you've built or as you've helped to build pickleball into this high-profile sport, the fastest growing sport in North America, what brands have you had the opportunity to work with as pickleball has attracted more attention?

Laura Gainor: Yes. There's been so many partners that came in directly with USA Pickleball, and then it was hard to keep up with all the brands that were wanting, and they're reaching out. So brands like Franklin, Oofos, Westbend Socks, Selkirk, these are all paddle. Selkirk is a pickleball-specific brand. Franklin, obviously, being a well-known in the sports industry, now getting into pickleball. And there's new apparel brands coming out. I mean, really, it's just endless of these non-endemic brands too that are coming into the sport that Anheuser-Busch bought a Major League Pickleball team, and we're going to continue to see more and more brands come in, especially with all these updates with Major League Pickleball on their overall events. And then where my expertise lies is, again, since I've kind of been in the middle of understanding all the different pro entities, why the sport's grown so fast. My former colleagues at other ad agencies are reaching out to me to help them because now their clients are all coming to them and saying, 'hey, like, we wanna do this event. What should we do?' 'Where should we start? What pro athletes should we get involved in? What celebrities, you know, should we get to be in our events?' That's why agencies are bringing me in as a consultant Vossburg Gainor to help them with their clients. And so I'm fortunate to get and work with a lot of different brands and a lot of exciting opportunities that people will hear about in the coming year as well.

Mark Evans: Yeah. It sounds like it's an embarrassment of riches from a brand/advertising perspective. You can imagine a brand that was so low-profile five years ago, and now it's the hottest thing since sliced bread. It must be incredible to see it firsthand. I spent a lot of time on LinkedIn. I suspect that you are now spending more time on LinkedIn since you launched a pickleball marketing newsletter to business leaders and brands about the sport. Talk to me about the whole idea of a newsletter on LinkedIn versus a standalone newsletter that you would send directly to people, and what have you learned along the way from the newsletter?

Laura Gainor: So LinkedIn's very viable. I actually talked with another podcast before that it's just I can't stress enough how I tell pro players to get on LinkedIn. Just the way that the platform works, it's really engaging. And as far as the newsletter, really it was just one morning. I was like, 'hey, I keep having people reaching out to me asking what is Major League Pickleball, what is PPA Tour?' And at that time, that's when PPA Tour had actually brought in Mark Cuban and announced their Pro Pickleball League that then of course, as we know, two weeks later, they just merged with Major League Pickleball and now they're at one. The sport was just changing so quickly that people can't keep up with, like, 'hey, what is this?' So I just wanted to create one news source and the audience on LinkedIn are all these executives of brands. They're all listening. They're starting to pay attention to pickleball. Some are wanting to maybe invest or some are trying to learn how should their brand come into the sport. Some are maybe looking for new jobs and just really admire the sport. But, overall, it's just been a very credible resource for me and then I didn't even realize some people were listening and then I'll reach out and say, 'hey, you gotta pick up a paddle first. You need to meet this.' So just from a networking community standpoint as well as new business leads, I've got a lot of new projects just from the platform because people are reading my Pickleball marketing newsletter and it's helping them. I send it once a week and just general knowledge as to marketing insights. Here's what's happening in sport. Here's some tips as to an event that you can be a part of in the coming months or here's just why the sport's so fun, social. How you can do it with your corporate networking events or team building. Really, the sport, it's just this kind of the best networking tool people were originally going to, like, golf or, you know, bringing their clients out for a golf outing. But now the best place to bring your clients for networking and kind of a new business opportunities is to get on the pickleball court. We were at the Players Championship this past weekend. And, again, pickleball just sparked up all these conversations and these introductions, and then people followed up afterwards. They had hopefully come to these bigger business opportunities for me in the months ahead. But overall, my pickleball marketing newsletter, it's just a great informational. Go to my Laura Gainor LinkedIn profile. You can subscribe to the newsletter, come to your inbox once a week, and people comment and engage on it. And it's just, yeah, been very beneficial for me to meet new people.

Mark Evans: Curious from your own branding perspective, you've got a presence on LinkedIn. Do you use other social media platforms, a blog, Facebook, Instagram, or anything else that you use to drive the brand and publicize the brand?

Laura Gainor: Really all over. All of the above. You know, because I have this kind of unique, and again, it will evolve. I've just been excited to try new things and be kind of a leader in the marketing space. But so I have my agency, Vossburg Gainor, you know, we talked about launching that in 2019, where now I've been having opportunities to work with brands, help them with marketing. And on my one-year anniversary of that agency, I made it a niche of pickleball marketing. And, of course, I kept continuing to work with USA Pickleball as a client, Real Deal Pickleball Clubs. I'm helping them with their marketing. So I have the agency side, and then since I was playing and living and traveling and planning these girls' weekends where we actually had tournament getaways, and then of course, experience the city that we're traveling to. That's when I got inspired to create that Pickleball in the Sun brand a little over a year ago. And just like everything else, it's evolving. I'm figuring out what I wanna do with it. It's just wide open, which is incredibly exciting. So both of my brands, I'm on all the social platforms and, sharing a lot of content, Instagram, Facebook, Twitter. Each tool kind of has its own unique, as you know, unique audience and different ways as to how I utilize them to connect, see what's going on in the pickleball space. I'm just always listening, always searching Google alerts and everything. The sport, it's changing so much. Just wanna make sure that I'm keeping up with everything that's happening in this space.

Mark Evans: Yeah. Provide some more details about Pickleball in the Sun. What was your inspiration for creating it? How have you managed that balancing act between having Vossburg Gainor and having another brand, which could take off depending on what you wanna do with it? You've got about two-headed beasts right now. Talk about Pickleball in the Sun, and what is the mandate, what are you looking to do with it?

Laura Gainor: Yes. I launched it a little over a year ago. As I said, we were actually here at our local courts. I was training with our friends, my pickleball partner, Mia, and we were booking pickleball getaway weekends where we would go from Friday to Sunday. Staying at a resort, resorts would add pickleball courts. You get to play fun, social when you're visiting your city, and then of course, participate in the tournament. And as I was doing that more and more, I was like, 'gosh, my background again has always been like running clubs and events,' so I just really wanted a fun logo. On our shirts, I had an advertising friend create the Pickleball in the Sun brand, and this evolved from there. Went from us having shirts for a tournament to, 'hey, I wanna feature Pickleball Destinations.' So I was writing for Pickleball Magazine and featuring premier Pickleball Destinations. Letting people know, like, 'hey, go stay in the JW Marriott Desert Ridge because you can play pickleball and then, of course, experience the Phoenix area.' So it's grown into, like, now being the source for pickleball destinations. So this announced a new partnership with the Pick n Play app because as we build, I mean, it takes time to add its content to your website. Like, 'what are some partners that I can bring in to make it stronger?' And Pick n Play, of course, is one of those to where Blake Renard, the founder, has created this app to where you can search when you're traveling and type in your ZIP code. Oh, yeah. Here's all the local courts as to where you can play. And then just this past week, we announced the Omni Amelia Island Resort is our first premier Pickleball in the Sun destination powered by Pick n Play, which gives opportunities for resorts to let people know about, 'hey.' 'We have pickleball courts because resorts are adding them knowing that people are choosing their destination. If they don't have pickleball, they're not choosing, you know, their resort.' So we're hoping to be that brand, those two brands that help people as they're traveling. Go to pickleballinthesun.com, find where our premier pickleball destinations are, utilize the Pick n Play app to find easily where they are. If you're choosing to go stay in Phoenix, you know, where are those resorts that we can stay at and play? So then resorts, of course, reach out to us because we'd love to feature them and let people know because we're now more and more building courts. So let us know, like, 'hey, we're opening pickleball courts this summer, make sure you choose, you know, our resort for your next winter vacation.'

Mark Evans: So here's the toughest question I'm gonna ask you during the interview. Cool. It's, you know, over the last four years, I imagine that you've had some pretty amazing pickleball events or stories that you've been involved in. Can you pick something out of all those potential stories that to highlight something that's memorable that you'd said, this is something that if I look back ten years from now or fifteen years, that story or that event will always stick out?

Laura Gainor: Yeah. That's definitely, I mean, I just got back from Los Angeles. I was out there to help Jane Fonda and Lily Tomlin, which I never would have thought, remember sitting in my house like four years ago watching her show on Netflix, Grace and Frankie, and living this life of like two ladies living in a beach house. I'm like, 'Oh, I love to live that way.' And Jane Fonda and Lily Tomlin announced she was creating a pickleball event. So I reached out and said, 'Hey, would love to help you bring in sponsors.' And so again, just kind of reaching out and asking for those opportunities, and I ended up going out to LA, bringing in some sponsors for Jane's event, and now well connected with her and her friends. They're planning more events down the road, and I just had to pinch myself when I was out there in LA and just her asking me for my advice, like, 'Hey, what should we do for this event?' Be running around for her at that event when I admired her, and like, she's just a hilarious comedian and actress. And then now to, again, just that community where we're so close to these celebrities through pickleball because it's just such a like-minded activity that. Yeah, definitely that Jane event was the top. Then of course, getting a chance to interview Maren Morris for a pickleball magazine cover story as well. I just found myself in these incredible opportunities that I feel very fortunate for.

Mark Evans: Well, pickleball has been very, very good to you over the last four years. That is the most interesting thing about it. It's almost like pickleball is just scratching the surface in terms. Yeah, of where it's going. If people are interested in learning more about you, Laura Gainor, Pickleball in the Sun, all the different things that you're involved

Laura Gainor: in. Yep.

Mark Evans: Where do they go? Where do they go? Where do they find out more about you and how they could get involved with pickleball?

Laura Gainor: Yeah. So for one, connect with me on LinkedIn, and I like that platform, especially kind of with other marketing professionals. Laura Gainor on LinkedIn, and then my website's lauragainor.com, pickleballinthesun.com. And whether you want some help with your marketing efforts, I'm happy to be a consultant. Gonna help guide everybody within the sport, understand the sport better, and then, of course, travel destinations. We'd love to play pickleball in the sun with everybody, and then feature resorts and brands within this unique partnership with the PicklePlay app.

Mark Evans: Thanks for all the great insight. After talking about pickleball during my positioning workshops, it's finally great to talk to the source of all the inspiration for what pickleball has become. And I wanna thank everyone for listening to another episode of Marketing Spark. If you enjoyed the conversation, leave a review, subscribe via Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app, and share via social media. And to learn more about how to work with B2B SaaS companies as a fractional CMO, strategic adviser, and positioning and messaging consultant, email mark@markevans.ca, or connect with me on LinkedIn. I'll talk to you soon.